Running a big rig on veggie oil

[NorthOrSouth]

I have been researching veggie oil as fuel in diesels for years. Seems to have a few downsides and upsides but vegetable oil for fuel is actually what good ol' Rudolph Diesel had in mind for fuel when he invented these amazing engines many years ago. When Big Oil came along they saw it as a way to get rid of their less refined product as a fuel.

Con:
- can be messy to collect and store
- have to clean veggie oil before putting in your tank
- time and effort to 'fuel up'
- fuel hoses have to be changed over to Viton so they don't degrade
- installation of a second tank and switchover valves
- veggie needs to be heated before injection and purged before engine shutdown in order to keep from clogging injectors

Pro:
- your fuel is either free or cheap (.50/gal vs 5.00/gal in Canada)
- engines runs smoother and quieter
- far less noxious emissions
- fuel is non toxic and non carcinogenic
- fuel spills are not dangerous - you can lick them up 🙂
- exhaust smells like french fries
- can pay off the cost of installation very quickly with fuel savings

The main reason that drivers seem to shy away from using veggie seems to be the difficulty in locating a secure source for their veggie oil. Who wants to invest a thousand bucks into a system that may not get used because you cant get veggie oil?

The second main reason seems to be just the hassle of it all. As much as we don't like the high cost of fuel most people value their time more than the cost of fuel, even when they're retired, although with a 200 gallon tank the cost difference could be $1000 a fill (in Canada).

Having gone through the pros and cons, I'm still very interested in converting my rig to run on veggie oil. The only way I can see to secure fuel is to go right back to the source - buy my own canola from a farmer and a commercial crusher available on eBay and make my own oil. This will be a laborious process but I see it as a hobby and a way to give a big finger to Big Oil so I'm willing to give it a shot.

Just wondering if anyone is running veggie on their rig? Making their own oil? And is there an issue with fuel degradation over time? If I collect for say, six months and put that all in the tank as I go, and then do a 2000 mile trip, will the veggie that is older be of noticeably lower quality in those six months? Will it matter to my 8.3 Cummins?

Interested in any and all input. Thanks.

[AH64ID]

xctraveler wrote:
Words have explicit meaning. Tax EVASION is illegal avoidance of taxes that are due. Tax AVOIDANCE is legal methods of paying less tax.

Absolutely true, I stand corrected.. and have corrected my post for the error.

[xctraveler]

Words have explicit meaning. Tax EVASION is illegal avoidance of taxes that are due. Tax AVOIDANCE is legal methods of paying less tax. There is no law that requires the payment of tax per MILE of highway driven. The law taxes the purchase of a gallon of road fuel. Full stop! Using a fuel that is not included in the tax law and is not prohibited by the law could be considered avoidance but is certainly not evasion. FYI IANL, but I play one on TV:)

Congress can't even get their act together to increase the existing highway tax to a level that is inflation adjusted to what it was when it was passed. The roads and bridges are falling apart and they . . . oh the heck with this rant.

[MrWizard]

as i remember it
the first diesel demonstrated ran on "coal dust"

but liquid fuel was much easier to inject and control

and quality control was easier

trying to create a steady supplied of correctly powered coal was not as easy as with oil

[booty51]

Ok I ran a different fuel but still had same issues about road taxes. I applied for a fuel tax stamp based on annual miles per year driven for that vehicle sent it into the state no further problems. That covered the state taxes but did not cover federal fuel taxes. I guess that wasn't an issue since I was following the same guidlines the company I worked for followed with company fleet program. I say go for it! what a great hobby and could educate the rest of us.

[AH64ID]

NorthOrSouth wrote:
Well I can't speak for all the electric car users (who I hope to join someday) but as a Canadian who also owns property in the US, I can say I pay a helluva lotta taxes - to BOTH governments. Which is why I would have absolutely no qualms about driving my DP "tax free". I've paid my fair share and then some. If they want to chase tax dollars they better look elsewhere.

I am sure the Judge won't really care when you are fighting your tax avoidance ticket.

[jplante4]

Well, I'm coming at this issue from my experience with aviation fuel. Different fuel, same issue. The big users of aviation fuel (airlines) are driving the argument for aviation services users fees. Their argument is that the small airplanes get the same services (air traffic control) as they do, but the airlines foot most of the bill through fuel taxes. The effort backfired on them because Congress' answer is user fees based on the services you use. On good weather days, small airplanes can fly with no services, but the airlines must fly in controlled airspace, and therefore cannot avoid users fees. You may have noticed that user fees never passed.

I see the same issue for road use tax on auto fuel. As cars get more efficient or go electric, states are looking for new sources of revenue to replace the gold mine that gas taxes use to be. Who do you think will pay more user fees in the auto tax world? They would most likely base a user fee on GVW because heavier vehicles cause more damage to roadways.

So go ahead and avoid taxes for the services you use. Eventually you will be paying user fees for simply owning a class A MH, regardless of how much or what type of fuel you use.

[holstein13]

mpierce wrote:
You can buy non-road taxed fuel to use in off road vehicles. They can NEVER be used on the highway, except to move from field to field. It is dyed fuel. Go to a farm supplier.

I'm sure you are right, but I don't know where to find any near Asheville, NC.

[NorthOrSouth]

jplante4 wrote:
I think you are missing the fuel tax point. Tax on motor fuel is a road use tax. If you use a road and want that road to stay in good shape, the fuel tax is the main source of funds to do so on most roads that are not part of the interstate system. This includes maintenance of roads crossing interstates on bridges that are rusting out and dropping chunks of concrete onto passing motor homes.

People think of non-toll roads as "free", but the money has to come from somewhere. That income source is you paying taxes on the fuel you use. The alternative is declaring the total number of miles driven a year on your tax return and being taxed x cents a mile. The more people that drive alternative (non-taxed) vehicles, the closer we are to that reality..

Well I can't speak for all the electric car users (who I hope to join someday) but as a Canadian who also owns property in the US, I can say I pay a helluva lotta taxes - to BOTH governments. Which is why I would have absolutely no qualms about driving my DP "tax free". I've paid my fair share and then some. If they want to chase tax dollars they better look elsewhere.

[mpierce]

holstein13 wrote:
Jplant4, road taxes aren't completely fair. My neighbors and I buy plenty of diesel fuel to use on our tractors and they never touch the highways. Does it really matter that some people pay no taxes and do use the highway?

.

You can buy non-road taxed fuel to use in off road vehicles. They can NEVER be used on the highway, except to move from field to field. It is dyed fuel. Go to a farm supplier.

Do NOT get caught with it in a road vehicle. The fine is very stiff.

[holstein13]

Jplant4, road taxes aren't completely fair. My neighbors and I buy plenty of diesel fuel to use on our tractors and they never touch the highways. Does it really matter that some people pay no taxes and do use the highway?

What about all the electric car drivers who pay a significant amount of tax on their electricity usage plus special EV taxes to use the road? That's not fair either. They should be exempt from paying the tax on the electricity.

The reality is that the US has successfully reduced the amount of gasoline and diesel that we use annually. Almost every type of vehicle uses far less fuel than they used to. Sadly, not RVs as much.

[FormerBoater]

Met a guy 5 years ago who was full timing in his American Eagle in Orlando.

Engine was a mechanical C8.3 and he told me that he had been using vegatable oil exclusively for a few years with no issues.

He also told me that he only purchased oil from Japanese restaurants due to the fact that it was very clean before he filtered it.

[mci7]

Here we go, I have always heard the biggest drain on the fed Highway fund is the cost of supporting the railroads, Amtrak is a big drain for example. Why the big need to raise the tax on fuel about 60%.
There are no free lunches.
Dave M

[jplante4]

I think you are missing the fuel tax point. Tax on motor fuel is a road use tax. If you use a road and want that road to stay in good shape, the fuel tax is the main source of funds to do so on most roads that are not part of the interstate system. This includes maintenance of roads crossing interstates on bridges that are rusting out and dropping chunks of concrete onto passing motor homes.

People think of non-toll roads as "free", but the money has to come from somewhere. That income source is you paying taxes on the fuel you use. The alternative is declaring the total number of miles driven a year on your tax return and being taxed x cents a mile. The more people that drive alternative (non-taxed) vehicles, the closer we are to that reality.

This is what pisses me off about the self righteous Prius driver puke who decides to save the world by slowing everyone else down. He's not even paying to use the road he's bottlenecking the third lane on. Meanwhile, my tax cost per mile of road is around a nickle.

I'm not a fan of big gummint either, but there's one thing I'm sure of. The gummint, regardless of size, will find a way to get the money it needs.

[Gjac]

NorthOrSouth wrote:

Gjac wrote:
A friend of mine has a 98 Dutch Star DP with the 8.3 mechanical Cummins eng. He has been using veggie oil in one form or another for 6 years. He has a heated tank for the vegetable oil because it is thicker and a centrifuge to filter the oil as he is traveling down the road along with water separators and other filters. What he has evolved to is collecting the oil from Chinese restaurants and others because the oil is higher quality than Burger King or McDonald's, while he works camps in Fla all winter. He stores it and filters it all winter in 50 gal drums. He starts the engine on regular diesel fuel until it reaches operating temperatures then switches over to the heated vegetable oil. While traveling he buys the filtered oil from other guys doing the same thing along the way He went to Az last year for a total bill of $50-$100 in fuel.

Awesome! Exactly what I was looking for! Would love this same setup. If you don't think he'd mind I'd love to be able to email him. Could you PM me?

I just sent you a PM.