SAFETY WARNING FOR TOADS

[aksnowman]

My brother started full timing this year and yesterday while disconnecting the Toad he noticed there was something wrong with the RV side of the tow receptacle. When he got underneath the back of the RV he found the tow hitch was bolted to the frame but that the frame had cracked where the two bolts are installed. The crack is about 4" long and if not discovered likely would have resulted in the separation of the Toad from the RV. I am to sure of the Model but the RV is a Thor product, 38' long and only a couple of years old.


Click For Full-Size Image.

[roam1]

looks to me the failure was casued by excessive torque where the hitch is bolted to the frame. This torque could come from overloading the hitch weight or from a sudden stop while towing with a drop down hitch. Say the toad brakes were not adjusted properly and you have a 5000# toad pushing on even a slightly dropped hitch ball, that can produce a heck of a lot of torque at the hitch mount point and easily exceed the torque max spec determined by weight and distance. Even though everyone thinks they don't overload their hitch, I bet they do occasionally.

[wildmanbaker]

Dale, I believe you are correct. I just came in from sliding under our MH and measured the frame from the last cross member, and it is 18". Your other measurements are the same as our frame, except, ours is a Fleetwood and has the raised rail construction, which has 10" on top of the Ford frame rails. The rolled corners really had me fooled about it being the actual ford frame. I believe they should not wait for the manufacture to act, NTSB should be contacted quickly.

[Dale_Traveling]

wildmanbaker wrote:
I really can't tell from the picture, the near side looks like the ford frame rail, but the inside of the far rail looks different. Most of the manufactures extensions look like Dales pictures, square edges at the bends, not roll formed. Most manufactures extensions are really a cobbled-up mess of steel with some ugly welding.

My hitch is on extensions and it would be a rare (not saying there are none) Ford chassis that didn't have extensions once a builder gets done with it. All F53 chassis are delivered with same rear overhang of 105.8 inches from rear axle center to the end of the frame.

Looking at the pic of the failure it is apparent that the hitch is attached to house builder added extensions. You can see the Ford frame on the right side of the edge near the fuel tank. Also in view is the last frame cross member. Of note is the frame section height is 9.2" at this point. If you follow the rail to where it disappears behind the hitch (Blue Line), when it reappears the lower edge (red line) of the rail is now several inches closer to the floor of the coach. Also you can see how the extension is bend on the far edge of the hitch (yellow line).

[Dale_Traveling]

aksnowman wrote:
The mounting of the hitch with the plate on top of the frame sure looks better than what is on my brother's. Also the triangles (widgets) welded on the frame are additions that add strength that aren't on my brother's.

Question, are you using and extensions at the hitch or a riser to move the hitch up and down?

I did when I was towing an Accord to reduce bar angle and to add a bike rack to the setup (didn't want to add a rack to the Accord). When I changed to a CR-V the drop coupler wasn't needed and the CR-V had a hitch receiver for the bike rack.

[aksnowman]

irishtom29 wrote:

aksnowman wrote:


Also the triangles (widgets) welded on the frame are additions that add strength that aren't on my brother's.

Those are called gussets.

Thanks..

[aksnowman]

stevenal wrote:
Report form

Please get your brother to report this. Maybe it will initiate a recall that might save a life or two. When the government re-opens, that is.

He has calls into the manufactures and we are gathering all the info to contact the NTSB.

[stevenal]

Report form

Please get your brother to report this. Maybe it will initiate a recall that might save a life or two. When the government re-opens, that is.

[irishtom29]

aksnowman wrote:


Also the triangles (widgets) welded on the frame are additions that add strength that aren't on my brother's.

Those are called gussets.

[4x4van]

I'd like to see a picture of the actual hitch that is being used; the drop specifically. I'd also like to see the same from the previous owner. It's quite possible that the previous owner, since they only towed a small trailer, was using a significant drop hitch; class A's typically have a fairly high rear bumper/hitch receiver, requiring a drop hitch, especially for a small trailer. That may have been in place and the PO backed into something (could have even occurred without the PO even knowing). The leverage that rgatijnet talked about can easily put much more force on that area than the actual weight. In any case, the damage has obviously been there awhile (the rust), although it may have just recently "opened up" so that the current owner noticed.

[wildmanbaker]

Well, we seem to be getting information as people post things that may have been related to the failure, second-hand at that. If this is indeed a Thor problem, NTSB needs to informed of it.

[wildmanbaker]

I really can't tell from the picture, the near side looks like the ford frame rail, but the inside of the far rail looks different. Most of the manufactures extensions look like Dales pictures, square edges at the bends, not roll formed. Most manufactures extensions are really a cobbled-up mess of steel with some ugly welding.

[aksnowman]

Ok for clarity, the frame extension is forward of the photo area and not any part of this problem so please drop that.

Second the owner or previous owner (Brother knows the guy as a neighbor) have not in anyway overloaded the the tow hitch so please stop with the arm chair quarterbacking saying it is possible owner overload. It just did not happen. Both present and previous owners towed within the weight limits and tongue limits. they only towed a small trailer with a golf cart on it and regular within limit toad.

There does look to be a welding blow thru at the l bracket but the other side cracked also and there is no bracket or weld there.

And no I am not mad or ill tempered about any of the posts, I do have a direct manner of communicating and can be sarcastic.

Lastly, on another Forum, it seems someone else has identified this problem on their rig. Which to me is a small success because that is one less tragedy on the road and means tat getting this out has a positive effect.

Thanks all for your inputs and keep them coming

[aksnowman]

Dale.Traveling wrote:
For what it's worth the images are 10 minutes old and taken of a 12 year old Thor Hurricane 31D gas chassis coach. The hitch is bolted to extensions welded to the chassis. Lots of miles since 2011 towing a 2005 CRV and a 1998 Accord. Prior to spring of 2011 no idea what the first owner towed.

Initial impression of the failure image it really looks like at some point the hitch was overloaded for vertical weight somehow. Owners of gas chassis rigs really have to watch the weight when towing. There's a lot of frame and extensions behind the rear axle. Makes for a rather efficient level using the axle as a pivot point. Extensions also have to be considered.

The average rig is only rated for 500 lbs vertical. For horizontal weight it's a difficult target to meet. There are new production rigs with 8K lbs advertised tow limits but when you do the math it is very difficult to make the combined weight other than with a very light loading of the coach.

The mounting of the hitch with the plate on top of the frame sure looks better than what is on my brother's. Also the triangles (widgets) welded on the frame are additions that add strength that aren't on my brother's.

Question, are you using and extensions at the hitch or a riser to move the hitch up and down?

[4x4van]

Tom/Barb wrote:

Bruce Brown wrote:

Take another look. There is clearly an extension slipped into the factory frame and welded. The extension failed right to the intersection of it and the factory frame. This one is on Thor.

I totally missed that the first go round. it shows the weld seam vertical to the crack.

I'd put this on Thor too. and possibility owner misuse. but it looks way to easy to overload.

I don't believe that is a welded extension at the break point. Look closely; the vertical weld right at the end of the break is an L-bracket welded to the frame, not an intersection/joint.

[Tom_Barb]

Bruce Brown wrote:

Take another look. There is clearly an extension slipped into the factory frame and welded. The extension failed right to the intersection of it and the factory frame. This one is on Thor.

I totally missed that the first go round. it shows the weld seam vertical to the crack.

I'd put this on Thor too. and possibility owner misuse. but it looks way to easy to overload.