Scary Handling Problem

[DunnInn]

First the equipment:
2009 Winnebago 29T class C on 2008 Ford E450 with V10 Triton
2007 Jeep Liberty with 4 wheel drive
Blue Ox Tow Bar and Tow Plate
Brake Buddy

Now the problem:
When driving the Winnebago or Jeep separately, they do fine. When you hook them together, it becomes a white knuckle experience. When the toad is hooked up, driving at city speeds, the steering on the RV seems stiff and doesn’t try to return to center after a turn. With the toad hooked up, driving at highway speeds, when I try to correct for a wind gust or a truck passing, the RV seems sluggish in responding then overcorrects and must be corrected back. This leads to overcorrection to the left followed by overcorrection to the right and this continues for several cycles. Then it’s back to a constant wandering between the lines. The tow bar handles are both in the locked position and there is no slippage in the bar. The alignment on the Jeep checked out OK. Also had the shocks on the RV checked – they’re OK. No oversized tires on the vehicles. Sure would like to find an INEXPENSIVE solution to this problem. Any suggestions?

[TyroneandGladys]

Always start with the basics. If your engine quit running you need to check to see if you have gas before replacing the engine. Load the Jeep and RV both up just like you would for a trip and drive them separately to the nearest truck scales that can weigh total weight and load on each axle. Weigh the RV by itself then hitch the Jeep and weigh it again. I would not be surprised if you do not see your front axle weight drop when you hook up the Jeep. Any front axle weight below 75% of its rating will cause handling issues. Alignments and adds are all good if the weights are right. Please repost and let us all know what you find out and what you do. CAT scale locator

[rcase13]

It's been a while since we had an update to this thread. Did DunnInn get his steering problems fixed?

[j-d]

I was impressed with SD. Called them with questions before I ordered. I have not installed a saf-t-steer. But I have done a trac bar. If you've done one of those, the sway bars will be a breeze.

[DunnInn]

Ordered them online from sdtrucksprings.com. Haven't looked at the installation instructions online yet, but when I put on the saf-t-steer and the rear trac bar, I had to call hellwig about a question and they were VERY helpful. Really like the company.

[j-d]

The Hellwig bars will make it nothing but better. I don't know what the rating of the overhead actually is. I've heard about something like "250 pounds occupants" or the like. But that's sleeping. I wouildn't want a couple hundred pounds of "stuff" up there bouncing on the road. But even 100 out of the rear and into the front is a big deal.
Anyhow, Front Hellwig is light enough to be a very easy install. I did something with height, and I forget if that was lower it a little if I'd jacked it to help get under, or jack it a little to be able to pull the OEM bar out and not get caught on some of the steering linkage. But it was EASY!
And except for the weight, the rear was easy too. Lay it on the box it came in (something inside if you want it not to sag but stay at full height, I didn't) and slide it under. OEM bar comes off easily then stick the Hellwig up over the axles and forward. Catch one bolt in an axle bracket and you've got control. From there it's all assembly. Instructions say to put the long front bushing bolts down from the top. That's what I did, but doing it again I'd go up from the bottom and put the nuts on the top end. Would look a little neater. Hellwig's front bar brackets aren't as neat as Roadmaster's, but I've had zero issues. Even went back to check torque on the bolts and they were still tight. If you look at Roadmaster's install instructions for the rear bar and compare the front attachments (sway bar up to chassis rails) the Hellwig brings bigger bushings to bear and I consider their rear bar the better of the two.
Who'd you order from?

[DunnInn]

Hellwig front and rear sway bars on order. Let's see how much they change things. We've had the thing weighed and the front is about 30% of the overall weight. When we travel, we try to put as much of the stuff in the overhead up front as possible and leave the rear compartments as empty as possible.

[j-d]

New Bilsten/Hellwig Thread may also help.
I missed seeing you got the coach back with a good body repair. Glad to hear that, disappointed the drive of it isn't what you'd hoped.
It's been so long I lost track of the details in all those posts. With the long overhang (low Wheelbase-to-Length percentatge) it's going to be hard to overcome the rear-heavy weight bias. In some of the pix, all the discretionary storage is behind the axle. We don't have a huge compartment accessible from the outside, but the whole underbed is storage. Still, what's forward of the axle? On ours, there in fact are a couple shallow storage bays, but in many that area's taken up completely by generator, LPG tank, utility center etc. There's no room to move weight forward without having it inside with you.
I visited a respected local shop that said the rear of the coach had to be raised and that'd transfer weight to the front axle. I have trouble how lifting the body 2" at the rear would have anywhere near the effect that moving the axle back 2", other than one can be accomplished and the other not.
At any rate, if the coach is actually rear-low (sagging) there are Hellwig helpers that might help. Look for 9640 (for 5 leaves) and 9645 (for 11). If nothing else, sagging = weak, and weak = sway.

[mikebo]

Have you had the coach weighed?

Mike

[ron_dittmer]

DunnInn wrote:
It still doesn't drive right.....
So, the last thing we can try is the sway bars. We're researching that right now.....

Some rigs handle fine without upgrades. Others not ideal but acceptable. Still others like you, find the handling unacceptable.

Given your dissatisfaction with the handling, I would invest in both a front and a rear heavy duty stabilizer bar. The bars are thicker and come with polymer bushings. Helwig and Roadmaster are 2 of a number of popular brands. Whatever brand you get, be sure they meet or beat this basic criteria.

Rear Bar
- 1-1/2" bar diameter
- polymer bushings

Front Bar
- 1-3/8" bar diameter
- polymer bushings

The stock E450 rear bar is 1-1/8". The extra 3/8 inch doesn't seem like much, but it makes a huge difference along with the more rigid polymer bushings.

The same applies to the front stabilizer bar. Stock is 7/8" to 1" pending E450 model year. The heavy duty bar is 3/8 to 1/2 inch thicker.

Our 2007 E350 chassis rig has heavy duty stabilizer bars along with other handling upgrades like a rear trac bar, heavy duty steering stabilzer, made-for-RV shocks, and a good wheel alignment as well. The rig has handled beautifully ever since, even when conditions are not so good. Five years running and all is well.

[NewsW]

Sounds like you are in the market for massive sway bars.

Chassis flexing is another problem.

[mikebo]

I have a motorhome that has a short wheelbase (182") and long rear overhang (132") and have put hellwig sway bars, blistering hd shocks, a blue Ox track bar on it and had it aligned with 5 deg. caster to improve the handling. It handles great with out the toad but still has a little oversteer with my toad. I did not feel the sway bars made a big difference. One other thing that I did while I was testing is that I increased the amount lift on my rear helper springs. That made the motorhome ride harsher but increased the stability. If you have the air shocks option, you might try increasing the pressure.

Mike

[DunnInn]

FINALLY got the RV back. If anyone in the DFW area wants a recommendation for a great fiberglass repair place, I have it. They did an excellent job. It still doesn't drive right. We finally had our friend measure the overhang on her motorhome and compared it to ours. Her overhang from the center of the rear tire to the end of the rear bumper is 128". Ours is 142". So, the last thing we can try is the sway bars. We're researching that right now and hope to get them changed out before mid January when we have our next big trip planned. Does anyone have any experience with tires making a difference in the handling? Just a thought.

[DunnInn]

We used Longhorn Tire in Mount Vernon for the alignment. They are supposedly the best in the area. HOWEVER, they're also the ones who damaged the RV. That said, I don't think you'll EVER see that happen again. We had them set the caster way ++ because of things said on this forum. Hope this helps, and hope you enjoy your MH.

[chigrl]

We are in your area and just bought a Ford E450 Class C 27 foot MH. Who are you working with for the alignment? Our steering feel light and we have nothing loaded in the MH yet. The Ford dealers say they won't do any work on a MH. I'm looking for someone who knows what they are doing, but we aren't familiar with this area.

Thanks

[ron_dittmer]

Dunnlnn,

Will Winnebago make the repair if you bring the rig their factory? I would think they would know best how to repair the rig.

I say this because other companies like Phoenix USA will repair a damaged rig, making it just like new again.

The manufacture of your rig is the best place to make it right again.....if you can work that out.