Thinking seriously about a used DP, never had a diesel

[MartyW]

Hi to all,

Many thanks to the folks who have responded to my other posts about probably going from a TT to a MH. We just recently found out (after we bought a 2 yr old 34' TT last Fall) that our German Shepherd dog is not going to be accepted at many of the private parks so we've decided that some type of MH with generator for A/C(s) will be in order if we need to light in a rest stop or truck stop overnight.

We've had Class C gassers before and there was one older gas Class A in the family that we used a few times, but we've always been told that if we could see our way clear to go for a DP then that is the definitely the way to go.

Our budget is $40k and we visited a dealer today that had a few units in this price range that looked good to us but they had age on them. The ages varied from 1999-2002. One unit in particular that met our floor plan and accessory requirements was a 2000 Fleetwood Discovery 37V with 65k miles. It was very clean inside with a little fading on the outside and one small area of delam about an inch wide just forward of the bedroom slide. Other than that it looked very good but it did have a few rock rash marks, but not many. Ok here go the questions, and my apologies in advance for being diesel ignorant (but I can learn)

Is 15 years too old to buy a DP with 65k miles if the dealer makes sure that everything is working (and we verify) when we leave the lot?

The dealer says this unit has a Cummins 300 hp turbo diesel with 6-speed Allison trans, but NADA lists this model with a 275 Cummins. Could the 300 hp have been a factory option?

One fellow at the dealer said this unit has an exhaust brake, but another person at the dealer said that it does not have the exhaust brake because he didn't see a switch on the dash. Is there a dash switch for the exhaust brake? I figured the exhaust brake was an automatic thing once installed, but then again I'm diesel ignorant.

The dealer said this unit is on a Freightliner chassis with full air suspension and that this chassis is so popular that just about any large truck shop can perform maintenance on it (not necessarily an RV shop). Does this sound correct?

And one thing that didn't sound right to me is that they won't allow a test drive due to liability insurance. Does this sound fishy or legit?

So whether we deal with this dealer and unit or not, this info will help us along to learn some basics when we look at the next one.

Any other specifics that we should ask greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance for all your knowledge and help,
Marty

[MartyW]

Thanks to all who helped on this thread, and special thanks to glamisorbust who helped me over the phone. The particular DP that we were interested in at this dealer had some issues that couldn't be overcome in time for us to get out and down to Florida in our timeframe. So we will take our TT down to FL and look for a DP there of about the same 2000'ish vingage. Many thanks again to all who responded.

[glamisorbust]

Marty, I did all the same research you're doing now about a year ago. I decided to roll the dice on the 53 block and it has worked good so far. I read a bunch of reviews...You just need to let the engine warm up and cool down, that's it.

[MartyW]

Thanks glamis, and your heads-up on the 53 block is much appreciated. I did some reading up on the 53 block and the thing that would scare me, not knowing the coach, is that from what I read the engine could be started and allowed to idle until warm and not leak, even if it already has a small crack. So I could see no coolant leaks and drive it off. But from what I read the crack would continue to get worse until more coolant is lost. I don't know enough to be certain. I can look underneath to see if I see stains but I'm not certain I could tell if it had a crack existing or beginning or not.

[glamisorbust]

When I warned you about checking the 53 block, that didn't mean to run away from it if it has one. If it hasn't cracked by now, it probably won't. The problem only exists with the 53 block when you don't allow it to properly warm up or cool down. If you do let it warm up and cool down you are most likely never going to have that problem.

Mine came with a toad, and a 2" receiver hitch. It had all the electrical connections except a 7 pin connector. Since i'm pulling a 5,000# flatbed(loaded), that requires electric brake hookups and a brake controller. My coach did not come with one, so I had to take the dash apart and wire one in. I had to run two wires from the dash all the way to the hitch. It was a pain in the rear but necessary.

The tires will have a date code on them with the week and year. Something like 3209. That would mean they were made in the 32nd week of 2009. Everyone here will tell you that 7 years is when you need to change the tires due to age. If the coach needs tires, it's between $2500-3k to get 6 fresh ones. You can use this as a bargaining tool. Hope this helps.

[MartyW]

One reason we sold our last Class C was that we still worked full time and didn't use it enough to justify buying tires every 5-6 years. We will check the tire date codes on whatever we buy and attempt to adjust the price accordingly since tires are a "true cost" item. Thanks again.

[ugh]

charlie good time wrote:
Maybe i missed it but i dont think anyone mentioned age of tires on that coach.0---5 years ok---older not so good.Look under that engine an drive line for oil leaks---check leveling cylinders extended for possible rust.Check exhaust system for rusted muffler.Check roof by actually walking on it . .Remember you are buying a older rv.

Very good point. A good friend of my inherited a 2008 DP. Which needed new tires for it. He was shocked that the tires were going to cost him 5k. I told him to get it and use it and sell it as he will get his money back since he inherited it anyway.

I almost bought one, but I got scared with the maintenance cost. My suggestion is to have 5K ready to go for unexpected repairs or something. Otherwise you will put it on your CC and get stuck paying for it.

[MartyW]

Thanks again for all the responses and experienced advice, and thanks for the specific $$ for toad hookups. Even though we've never owned a Class A, there was one in the family that we drove several times, and last year when we were going back and forth between whether to get another TT or another MH, we looked at literally hundreds of used units online with their floorplans. The floorplan of this Discovery at this dealer is one that we could use for several reasons and there are two more things my wife wants to check on when we see it tomorrow. If those two are a go for her then she will likely want to spring for this one. And it does definitely have the exhaust brake. The salesman didn't know where the switch was, but the manager did.

Last night I did some reading up on the dreaded 53 block from Brazil and this will be the first thing I check for. If this coach has the 53 block then that will be the end of looking at this one. I'm so appreciative that this was pointed out. We can handle replacing a refrig or ac unit or injector pump, etc, but replacing the engine is something that we can't risk, especially on a known issue. Many thanks again to all.

[charlie_good_ti]

Maybe i missed it but i dont think anyone mentioned age of tires on that coach.0---5 years ok---older not so good.Look under that engine an drive line for oil leaks---check leveling cylinders extended for possible rust.Check exhaust system for rusted muffler.Check roof by actually walking on it . .Remember you are buying a older rv.

[Dance_Chick]

There are so many dealers in FL and so many MHs to choose from. You might seriously consider bringing your TT to FL and look around. Don't rush into anything. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[RayChez]

That coach should have a exhaust brake, most likely on the left side where they usually install the exhaust brake switch, touch gear control, mirror control and heater switch, control for spotlight.

Sixty five thousand miles for a diesel is just breaking in. The only thing that raises a red flag for me would be that the dealer does not let you test drive the coach. There is something fishy there.

I am not a Cummins person, but some folks like them. I had bad experiences with the ISB engines, but on Dodge pickups. But other folks swear by them. Either way diesel engines are superior to gasoline engines in my opinion.

[fcooper]

MartyW wrote:
Many thanks for all the opinions and I appreciate that these opinions come from experience. .....much text deleted.....

I have one more question: What would be different on a rig like this that has towed a toad or not? This one does have the 2" receiver installed. Would there be additional internal equipment on a unit that has towed or would all the extra equipment be external, like braking? Many thanks to all.

Just my experience with 2 motorhomes. They both had been set up for towing a toad, and all that was on the motorhome was the 2 inch receiver and the 6 or 7 pin electrical connector for feeding electrical to the toad lights. I assume that connector comes with all motorhomes, but I am not sure.

Plan on spending another $1500 to $2500 to get the toad set up for towing. You'll need a quality tow bar, toad baseplate, electrical umbilical cord, safety chains or cables, electrical connector on the toad, diodes or additional lights for the rear of the toad, and a supplemental braking system (with break-away switch) for the toad.

Selecting the supplemental braking system also takes some research, with the basic questions being do you want one like brake buddy that you set in the floor and remove when you want to drive the toad, or do you want want one permanently installed that takes no (or minimal) setup before each trip.

The 2 inch receiver on the motorhome will have a towing weight limit on it, so be sure to check this. Also look at the coach weight vs the combined weight rating.


Fred

[GMandJM]

If it already has a receiver hitch, then you will still need a tow bar, a braking system and the correct base plate for the vehicle you will tow. The RV should should have a seven pin connection if it has been used for towing.

[John_S_]

I would look at older Foretravels. They are solid coaches and you can get one for your price range. I have 176000 miles on my coach and it is great. There are a number of owners aging out and if you can go older the 95, you get a transmission retarder. Also TN RV is an authorized repair shop.

[MartyW]

Many thanks for all the opinions and I appreciate that these opinions come from experience. Much appreciated. Monday may be a very interesting day. If I like the way it seems to handle with the manager driving I may ask to drive it and see what he says. If he says no then it will probably be a no sale. I'll also need to look at the engine casting# as warned.

Last summer when we were going back and forth between whether to choose another MH or another TT, we did look at several MH's and we did take out one other DP, so I would have that one other DP to compare against. That one was a Tiffen Allegro Bus with one slide.

The prices of all the 1999-2000 Discovery units on RV Trader seem pretty close together in price with the higher mileage ones a bit less $$ and this one with less than 65k miles is marked at $39.9k. Only final negotiations, if we get that far, would reveal the actual buying price.

I appreciate everyone's input and I'll report back Monday evening or Tuesday. I also need to ask the insurance folks what the differences would be.

I have one more question: What would be different on a rig like this that has towed a toad or not? This one does have the 2" receiver installed. Would there be additional internal equipment on a unit that has towed or would all the extra equipment be external, like braking? Many thanks to all.