Tiny house crossover to RV?

[drsolo]

Is anyone else watching the new series "Tiny House" and thinking about some of their multipurpose installations as being possible for our repurposed RVanss?

[Davydd]

I've never had a cable lock for my many laptops. I've always thought that might have been a college student essential thing and computers didn't even exist when I was a college student. 🙂 However, we are getting a safe installed in our new B that will be big enough to hold a couple of laptop computers and more.

[mlts22]

Around this time last year when I inquired with a would-be "B" maker that never got their product into the market, they pointed to a company called Nature's Head for a RV composting toilet. It was designed to split up #1 and #2. #1 ended up in a bottle that one was expected to go and dump somewhere, and #2 ended up in a bucket, and had to be "seeded" with a peat moss bag after being emptied.

For a true boondocker, someone who would be able to find a place to dump the urine, and then take the time to spread out the compost and "reload" with another bag of peat moss, not having to worry about black tank dumping might be what they want. However, this type of RV use wouldn't be that common because having to scoop poop in various stages of fermentation would only appeal to the most die-hard boondockers... and even then, the boondocking trips would be limited to the amount of fresh water.

I think it is a decent option for the relatively few who want a "B" for long term off-road use, but for me, I rather have a conventional black/gray tank setup, as almost all "B"s except Sportsmobile Ford Econoline upfits are more designed for touring and trips, not long dry camping stays.

Tiny houses can be well insulated. I am following a YouTube channel of one person building his own tiny house, and he has multiple layers of insulation, from the wood siding, to the tar paper, to the rockwool insulation, to a sheet of Reflectix, finally to some paper and the inside wood slats, with proper air gaps between the rockwool and the Reflectix. Since he built his house on a travel trailer frame, he did similar with insulation for the floor, as well as added skirting and flashing on the bottom as a barrier to insects and rodents. I'm sure that his place in the northeast is going to handle the upcoming winter quite well, especially with his wood stove.

For a computer, I think one of my eventual purchases will be a Macbook Pro or Air. I have one from 2008 (the aluminum Macbook before it was renamed the MBP), but even though it runs Yosemite, it definitely is time for a new computer. The touchscreen on those is definitely nice, especially once one gets used to the various multi finger gestures. My only issue with Macbooks is that Apple ditched the Kensington lock slot, and it would be nice to have even a slight theft deterrent while I'm away from the vehicle.

[Davydd]

Our van type RVs have an insulation limitation in that the ribbing is only about 1-1/2" think in which to insulate and they have a lot of metal heat transfer as well through the ribbing. Tiny homes can easily be super insulated with stress skin panels if desired with no through heat loss and R values as high as 30 or so vs a Class B at 4.5 at best (a generous estimate, IMO).

I think an Advanced RV is being built with a composting toilet (not mine). You would still have to have a grey water tank to dump. I don't know much about composting toilets but I am assuming you would not be wasting your fresh water with them thus allowing more water for other things. I also don't know how long you would have to go between dumps. I just haven't investigated them. I have researched and specified the original "Clivus Multrum" composting toilets in homes. To me that was a good citizen desire on the owner's part. I should see if they have any advantages in an RV.

All my computing is sitting in a lounger chair with a laptop now. I have gotten pretty good with a touch pad so no longer use a mouse. I can even do CAD drawing pretty well with a touch pad.

[drsolo]

Davydd wrote:
The tiniest of homes seem to always have loft sleeping. That narrows the market to young people for the most part.

Episode 3 of Tiny Houses has a non-loft solution. The bed slides out from under a "rise" in the floor that is one step up to the "office". The made up bed just slides back out of the way when not in use.

And that episode has a washer/dryer, something most tiny homes dont have and something I miss in my RVan. I too have been wondering about those really big expensive composing toilets but no discussion of grey water at all and rarely electric power. In one of the larger and permanent tiny homes, episode 5, they do have a great solar panel.

CROSSOVER......

The downsizing issue has really struck home with me because it was the series of hoarding that struck home originally. My mother was an organized hoarder and when she died 10 years ago I had to deal with getting everything out of a 2k square foot house so we could rent it ... dealing with her stuff I saw evidence of the hoarding instinct in myself and began to deal with it after watching "hoarders". Living for 2 months at a time in my RVan, 50 square feet, did something to my brain as well and I realized just how little I actually need to be comfortable. For example, in our house I had a 2' x 4' table I used for my laptop, external big monitor, keyboard and all the stuff came to "roost" on the flat surfaces. In the RVan I just had my laptop, keyboard and mouse. Then I got rid of the keyboard when I just turned the touchpad off, learned to type on the built in and learned to "mouse" off the corner of the laptop which sits in my lap! This last time I came home I got rid of the table, monitor, keyboard and now use the laptop in my lap in my recliner which is a simple solution, more comfortable and put the laptop on a TV tray next to my chair when not in use.

My biggest problem is still sentimental attachment to "old things" (excluding my husband of course) but I am learning to deal with those as well.

One thing that occurred to me was that the tiny homes are much better insulated than our RVs?

[drsolo]

PapPappy wrote:
Another good show is that one with the guy building tree-houses. :B It's nice to see the picture of the van and trailer.
Bill & Claudia

I have watched the tree house program but it doesnt "satisfy". They seem to be so overdone that it defeats the purpose of a tree house.

Yes, Papa Bear and the Cub. LOL

[Snowman9000]

I believe it's on the Discovery channel.

We've watched several episodes. The time they devote to the purging of possessions is interesting.

What bugs me is how they keep using big composting toilets, yet they have sinks and showers. They do not explain the whys and wherefores. Makes me wonder if they are dumping gray water on the ground.

[Davydd]

I haven't watched the Tiny House series. Is it on cable? I have watched the tree house cable show a few times. I do follow Tiny House Talk on the Internet.

[Davydd]

PapPappy,

The backyard tiny house is hit or miss in communities in regard to allowing them. It is an interesting dynamic. A lot of inner city neighborhoods have a problem with them because it brings more density and more auto parking problems in some 1/8th acre lot neighborhoods. At the same time those neighborhoods battle with the tear down and build McMansions that overshadow the smaller neighborhood homes.

mlts22,

One of the biggest reasons so many tiny houses are on wheels is the get around building codes. I think what you want, at least in urban areas, has been zoned out. That is probably the major reason you don't see much development in livability in the smallest size possible. Even in multifamily apartments it is rare to find cities that allow anything less than 500 sf but there is a movement to approve such. One basic problem is allocated square feet. The minimum size bedroom for instance by code is usually 80 square feet or a minimum dimension of 8 feet clear. Right there if you were trying to build a tiny house it would have to exceed the maximum road width of 8'-6". So the tiny houses on wheels would not be permanently allowed. One can dig and dig into the codes but I think would quickly find there would be a no man's land of building feasibility between 400 sf and probably around 800 sf. as a minimum. But once you get above 800 sf it seems the tiny house infatuation ends. Thus not much interest with the exception of the vacation cabin second home. There are probably a myriad of other reasons of why it just doesn't seem to happen.

Well anyway, we have used our Class B as a tiny house in some ways. We have used ours with visiting guests in our driveway. And of course, it has been our home on the road for as much as a third of a year and there are some full-timers out there in Bs. We B vanners have some experience with "tiny houses". 🙂

[Johno02]

We found out that we can live in a well-designed "tiny house" for 3-4 months while volunteering in our 30' (with two slides) MH. After that, it is really nice to come back to our conventional house and stretch out!

[tatest]

Many of these individual builders could save a lot of money and get a better made product buying a travel trailer or park model RV. But that does not fit the self reliance philosophy that seems to be behind the movement, yet many hire someone to build for them, or buy from a "tiny house" factory and have it hauled out to the site and dropped with a crane.

[mlts22]

I find a tiny house sort of functional, and is a nice thing for someone to build or have built, just because of all the customizations once can do to it (like adding a ton of insulation, building LED lights directly into the frame for indirect lighting, having most everything run from a solar circuit except the air conditioner, etc.) However, even though a loft is acceptable for me in my 40s while my knees are OK, this may get painful in 10-20 years time.

I'd rather have a conventional house that is well laid out, and the attic be able to be used for storage. The square footage would be more than a tiny house, but I mainly am focusing on livability rather than the smallest size possible.

[PapPappy]

I agree with you Davydd....though I think they do have a place in society. Recently saw an article about In-Law homes that people would have built in backyard, rather than having Seniors sent off to a Nursing Home. The house was 240 sq-ft (10x24) and basically a efficiency apartment with a bathroom. Cost was about $50K, and the article said that a lot of communities were now changing their zoning to allow these places. It is still a Tiny House, but it looked as if it was a very nice place for Grandma...who could then come into themain house for socializing.

Sorry Ingrid, I'm going off track....

[Davydd]

Many of the tiny houses are long and narrow because they build them on wheels. So many are really nothing but trailers or park homes which by regulation are under 400 sf. Because of the trailer like constraints, surprisingly, innovation, creativity, that square design mentioned, are mostly lacking.

As an architect I have always had a curiosity about tiny homes. It is in my mind pretty much a boutique experience for a short term period. They really don't solve much in regard to housing since they are cost inefficient and material heavy use compared to multi-housing solutions. Other than the occasional backyard "mother-in-law" shelter they waste a lot of space when you find them pictured in the countryside 5 acre plus land plots. The tiniest of homes seem to always have loft sleeping. That narrows the market to young people for the most part.

Do we have much to learn from them for an RV? I dunno. They are as I originally said mostly RVs themselves. They could learn a lot from the Class B motorhome market.

I'm generally a little more interested in real solutions for families similar to the post WWII 832 sf. home I grew up in as a kid. We quickly, as a nation grew away from that with 1,200 sf the average size home in 1950 to about 2,400 sf today.

[PapPappy]

Yes! I have watched it on a few occasions, and see how many of the space saving ideas would work just as well in an RV.
I sometimes wonder about the projects on that show....and how they seem to try and make the places as small as possible, without really building practically. A square house is more efficient use of space than a rectangular one, as far as cost of construction, and yet they always make them long and narrow. Same goes for the lofts...they have the property and area to make a complete second floor, yet never do. Still, I think it's a good show, and I've picked up a few neat ideas from it along the way.
Another good show is that one with the guy building tree-houses. :B

It's nice to see the picture of the van and trailer. We had talked about it on PapFriends a few times, and I think you had posted pictures of them separately, but this is the first I've seen them together. A sweet ride!

Bill & Claudia