To Brake assist or not to brake assist ?

[jbstack28]

Ok, new to the Class A lifestyle, had a Fifth wheel in the past. Looking to setup my tow vehicle. I purchased a 2019 Kia Soul, weighs less than 3,000 lbs. So question is this. Go with no brake assist, or purchase used 'Brake Buddy'( ugly and old technology) for those what three states where I would be illegal? I would simply slap it in place so I would be legal.

Thanks so much,

charlie..

[rgatijnet1]

Two Jayhawks wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:
I guess it is possible but I can't even imagine how a toad can break loose unless someone tried to cut corners. I mean you have to have both arms of the tow bar fail, as well as both tow chains, or perhaps your hitch broke loose and the entire tow bar came loose. In that case, you still have the two tow chains. I never trusted the hooks on the tow chains and I replaced the ends with screw on links. These will never come loose and will hold the vehicle if everything else fails. On my rig, I would have to have four things fail at once for my toad to break loose. This seems highly unlikely.

Ah you are not using your imagination. One of the cases the Blue Ox base plate broke free from the front end of the car. Of course, in this case the secondary cables were also attached to the base plate. IIRC this one was maybe 5 years ago on here?

My Demco base plate is in two pieces so both would have to break loose from the car.

[Two_Jayhawks]

rgatijnet1 wrote:
I guess it is possible but I can't even imagine how a toad can break loose unless someone tried to cut corners. I mean you have to have both arms of the tow bar fail, as well as both tow chains, or perhaps your hitch broke loose and the entire tow bar came loose. In that case, you still have the two tow chains. I never trusted the hooks on the tow chains and I replaced the ends with screw on links. These will never come loose and will hold the vehicle if everything else fails. On my rig, I would have to have four things fail at once for my toad to break loose. This seems highly unlikely.

Ah you are not using your imagination. One of the cases the Blue Ox base plate broke free from the front end of the car. Of course, in this case the secondary cables were also attached to the base plate. IIRC this one was maybe 5 years ago on here?

[rgatijnet1]

I guess it is possible but I can't even imagine how a toad can break loose unless someone tried to cut corners. I mean you have to have both arms of the tow bar fail, as well as both tow chains, or perhaps your hitch broke loose and the entire tow bar came loose. In that case, you still have the two tow chains. I never trusted the hooks on the tow chains and I replaced the ends with screw on links. These will never come loose and will hold the vehicle if everything else fails. On my rig, I would have to have four things fail at once for my toad to break loose. This seems highly unlikely.

[Two_Jayhawks]

jplante4 wrote:
In all the years I've been poking around RV forums, I have never heard of a toad breaking free and playing Hopper on the highway. I've have, however, heard of people leaving their brakes on and the toad catching fire because the wheels were being dragged down the road by a clueless RV driver with so much HP in the coach that they didn't notice the additional drag. I personally stopped a class A leaving a Carolina Crossroads in NC with his toad brakes on. This would indicate that brakes cause more problems than they solve.

I have seen maybe a couple cases on this forum of a toad breaking free. Please don't ask me to put my finger on one though. Regardless, that still doesn't necessarily point to having/not having aux brake as much as maybe not having a break away devise. I do agree with you though, aux brake systems certainly can be responsible for causing damage.

[jplante4]

In all the years I've been poking around RV forums, I have never heard of a toad breaking free and playing Hopper on the highway. I've have, however, heard of people leaving their brakes on and the toad catching fire because the wheels were being dragged down the road by a clueless RV driver with so much HP in the coach that they didn't notice the additional drag. I personally stopped a class A leaving a Carolina Crossroads in NC with his toad brakes on. This would indicate that brakes cause more problems than they solve.

[rgatijnet1]

wa8yxm wrote:

BUT if you have wheels NOT breaking (As in a free wheeling "Trailer" and I put trailer in quotes because it need not be a Trailer) then the math is much much much more complex and the skid distance is much farther.. 1/3 (as US gear says) perhaps not but that is my source.

And knowning that as any high school physics student SHOULD knwo. It is reckless to NOT have aux brakes though I'll admit if you have like a 10 to 1 weight ratio ... the diference won't be that great.

As I had mentioned in my first post, I use an aux brake BUT, and this is most important, it is NOT legally required in any of the 40+ States that I contacted. States like California DO NOT require an aux brake but you must be able to stop your rig within a given distance, ie stop within 50' at 20 MPH, (which is just an example and not the actual requirements).
For those that believe that an aux brake is legally required, or, as some have mentioned, "common sense", I assume that when your aux brake fails, which it will at some point, that you will abandon your toad at the side of the road, or leave it behind in an RV park, until you can get your aux brake fixed. :B

Here is the link to California DMV and if you scroll down it talks about towing behind an RV. At no time does it mention that you must have brakes on the toad.
Cannot do the link but just do a search of "California DMV, Driving your RV safely" and you will find the website.

Now if you check any site from any manufacturer of any braking system, they will ALL mention that you must have one of their systems to be legal in California, and most any other States. Total BS.

[wa8yxm]

rgatijnet1 wrote:

wa8yxm wrote:


The other law is called "Reckless Endangerment" and if you rear end me and you don't have aux brakes on the "Trailer".. Well .. I'll be rich.

In your dreams. :B
I gave actual replies from a couple of States, I have 40+ replies that all say basically the same thing when asked about towing a VEHICLE 4 down. A vehicle is not a trailer, and none of the States I contacted considered it a trailer.
Provide some facts, like names of specific people in positions of enforcement authority, to back up your OPINION and maybe, someone will believe you.
I did my homework, now do yours. Here is the name of the man in Connecticut that also agrees no supplemental braking system is legally required.

Donald Bridge, Jr., Lieutenant
CT Dept. of Motor Vehicles
Commercial Vehicle Safety Division
60 State Street
Wethersfield, CT 06161
Phone: (860) 263-5446
Fax: (860) 263-5587

Lt. the Civil law is not your department Thus you do not know it.
US-Gear states that a proper AUX BRAKE system can reduce your stoppign distance by as much as 1/3.. I think that's a bit .. Optimistic but I did study physics in college and I have a question for you.

I have been told over and over how much longer it takes to stop a "Big Rig" as opposed to a car.. Ok here is the question
When you are measureing skid marks to decide how fast a speeding driver was flying before the crash.. DO you use a diferent formula for a Loaded semi and a pick up truck?

The weight of the vehicle factors out if ALL WHEELS are braking and only the speed remains as a variable. SO if the vehicle slid 100 feet it was going xx mph.. PREIOD.

BUT if you have wheels NOT breaking (As in a free wheeling "Trailer" and I put trailer in quotes because it need not be a Trailer) then the math is much much much more complex and the skid distance is much farther.. 1/3 (as US gear says) perhaps not but that is my source.

And knowning that as any high school physics student SHOULD knwo. It is reckless to NOT have aux brakes though I'll admit if you have like a 10 to 1 weight ratio ... the diference won't be that great.

[irishtom29]

Bill.Satellite wrote:
If you are involved in an accident without one you will spend many more dollars defending the decision NOT to add braking then the braking system costs.

You will? Can you cite such an instance? And how often this happens? Sources please.

[et2]

wa8yxm wrote:
First I would NEVER recommend a Brake Buddy or any of the other "Box in the driver's position" systems.. These have to be INSTALLED every time you tow (I know they say "No Installation" but don't believe it).

I"d go with a Ready Brake (If you have not gotten a tow bar the Ready Brute has that option) or Blue Ox Auto Stop.. or if you have air brakes and it fits your towed (not a given) The M&G or Air force 1

Goign down the line I used USGEAR Unified brake decelarator (Bad install cost me a brake job rotors incuded on car) or Invisi Brake or ...

Well most any INSTALLED system that's not in your way when you drive.

As for legality. Multiple laws. Most states have a law that says something like
Aux brakes needed if towed trailer (Vehicle) is over xxxx pounds The weigh can be as low as 1500 or as high as 4000 and it is the state of registration that determines. (NOTE those weights are by memory and may be ...off.. also yoru state may be different)

SOme states only have laws that apply to "Trailers" and they will try to convince you "Oh you are towing a car not a trailer" But read the definition of Trailer (Any vehicle towed so that the weight of the towed vehicle does NOT REST on the towing vehicle.. Which fits a car towed 4 Down perfectly but does NOT fit a TT.. So there are additional definitions for the Trailers).

The other law is called "Reckless Endangerment" and if you rear end me and you don't have aux brakes on the "Trailer".. Well .. I'll be rich.

We've had our brake buddy classic for 7 years and 3 different vehicles. Never had to bolt in in so to speak. It sits on the floor and plugs into the designated 12v socket supplied with the car.

It takes about 3-4 minutes to set it up to tow and about 30 seconds to take it back out at the end of the trip. Never had a problem with it and it works just fine.

They're not bolted to anything or needing any air line added. Only wire needs running is the emergency break away and that is only once. I'm not about to judge any other systems out there especially since having zero experience with them.

It Doesn't sound like you have experience with Brake Buddy either.

[PastorCharlie]

Tow bars can and do fail causing the vehicle in tow to be on its own... without a brake away braking system it is playing "Russian Roulette with the other travelers on the highway.

A local man was decapitated when meeting a dump truck pulling a utility trailer that came loose and crossed the highway into his lane hitting his vehicle head on cutting the roof off. Common sense ought to take precedent over laws when the lives of others are involved... and millions of travelers are on the highways daily.

[et2]

timmac wrote:

et2 wrote:
For safety factors alone I can't imagine not using one, no matter the weight.

I don't have one for my 04 Jeep Wrangler and my motorhome stops just fine, the tow/haul transmission does very well at adding extra stopping power when towing, however when flat towing my total weight is well under my GCWR..

Most people get it. But, for whatever reason your toad becomes not attached for some unforeseen circumstance, what's going to stop it? So having a extra system to take the load off your MH stopping or braking is a waste of time? Using a auxillary brake won't decrease your stopping distance if needed? Sorry not buying into there's no benefit. It doesn't matter if legal or not. Common sense is what it is.

[Bill_Satellite]

jbstack28 wrote:
Ok, new to the Class A lifestyle, had a Fifth wheel in the past. Looking to setup my tow vehicle. I purchased a 2019 Kia Soul, weighs less than 3,000 lbs. So question is this. Go with no brake assist, or purchase used 'Brake Buddy'( ugly and old technology) for those what three states where I would be illegal? I would simply slap it in place so I would be legal.

Thanks so much,

charlie..

Right, wrong, legal, illegal.......put in a braking system. If you are involved in an accident without one you will spend many more dollars defending the decision NOT to add braking then the braking system costs.

[doxiemom11]

I'll just add that an insurance company CANNOT deny a claim for something that is not written in the policy booklet that you are provided with when you start your policy. If they try, one complaint to the insurance commissioner of that state will have an investigation of your claim going. They cannot just make up the rules as they go and as they wish. Everything must be filed with the state and in writing.

[doc_brown]

I say yes. I’m on my third jeep toad and I’ve used three different systems. My current Air Force One is the best of the three. I installed the system so I saved a pretty penny. In regards to the legal position all I’ll say is that you may not be criminally liable but you could be civilly liable. I’ve heard the opposition quite often, “ your coach weighs 35,000 pounds and your jeep is right around 5,000 pounds, your coach must stop just fine without a braking system on the jeep”. For most stops yes, but I’ve had two panic stops and have gone down many steep grades in the west. I do feel the difference. To each his own. Be safe!

[irishtom29]

If the combined weight of coach and toad did not exceed the GVWR of the coach (GVWR, not GCWR) I wouldn’t bother with supplemental brakes since the coach brakes are designed to deal with the GVWR. I exceed the coach GVWR and so use supplemental brakes.

Note that Ford advises the use of supplemental brakes when coach and toad exceed coach GVWR.