v10 torque vrs diesel

[tres_perros]

Hello folks

I have been looking for a used class A leaning towards a diesel as I plan on towing a Jeep and travel west coast, rockies

Evidentially I am told that the newer V10 fords have very similar torque range ( a model change with an extra valve)

So Id love to hear some opinions regarding this, including if maintenance/warranty contracts are any cheaper...

Thanks ahead of time! This is a great forum and has been very helpful

Keith

[jmtandem]

No, that is IMPOSSIBLE. A turbine simply CANNOT have those power numbers, it just is not possible! Turbines spin an incredibly high RPM's (they often idle over 15,000RPM!)...the horsepower will ALWAYS be much higher than the torque! Again: this is basic physics!

[427435]

jmtandem wrote:

This discussion always reminds me of the specifications for the M1A1 Abrams tank. 135,000 lbs, top speed of 60 mph, able to climb 45% slopes! And all with 270 ft lbs of torque!

Granted there have been some varants of the Abrams tank but here are the numbers. It has a Honeywell 1500 shaft horsepower multi fuel turbine engine that equates to 24.5 hp per ton, develops 2750 foot pounds of torque, mated to an Allison six speed trans. It has a governor that will not let it go faster than 45 mph on pavement and the tank is not driven much faster than 35 on pavement and 25 on dirt. It gets 1.67 gallons per mile. Engine start up burns 10 gallons. Cost new is just over eight million per copy. It has a crew of four. What does this have to do with a diesel or gas motorhome?

Those numbers have to be for the output of the gear box behind the turbine engine------------not the output of the turbine engine shaft itself.

[Jarlaxle]

No, that is IMPOSSIBLE. A turbine simply CANNOT have those power numbers, it just is not possible! Turbines spin an incredibly high RPM's (they often idle over 15,000RPM!)...the horsepower will ALWAYS be much higher than the torque! Again: this is basic physics!

[jmtandem]

Again, no one has explained how a high reving gas turbine (with torque levels under 300 ft-lbs) can move heavy tanks up steep inclines if it is only engine torque that does it.

The Abrams tank has 1500 horsepower and 2750 foot pounds of torque. Maybe that helps explain it. It simply is not in the same category of motorhomes. The tank's engine is made by Lycoming that makes aircraft engines. The early versions of the tank were made by a division of Chrysler.

[jmtandem]

This discussion always reminds me of the specifications for the M1A1 Abrams tank. 135,000 lbs, top speed of 60 mph, able to climb 45% slopes! And all with 270 ft lbs of torque!

Granted there have been some varants of the Abrams tank but here are the numbers. It has a Honeywell 1500 shaft horsepower multi fuel turbine engine that equates to 24.5 hp per ton, develops 2750 foot pounds of torque, mated to an Allison six speed trans. It has a governor that will not let it go faster than 45 mph on pavement and the tank is not driven much faster than 35 on pavement and 25 on dirt. It gets 1.67 gallons per mile. Engine start up burns 10 gallons. Cost new is just over eight million per copy. It has a crew of four. What does this have to do with a diesel or gas motorhome?

[00_BUCK]

Lots of
diesel lovers on this forum[
/b] and the diesels have their points-----------------both good and bad. For the way we use ours (we pull a 5000 lb toad), a diesel made no sense, and we have been very pleased with the "lowly" 310 hp V10.

Count me as one and for good reasons.

Price was not mentioned by the OP in his question , so I fail to see why it was raised at all ? Diesel envy perhaps ?

[the_silverback]

I am sorry but I must say that motorhomes still must obey the Laws of Physics. They say that if you double the weight of something and everthing else remains the same it will accerate half as fast. Or if you double the power of something and everthing else remains the same it will accerate twice as fast. I hope by now we can agree with the Physics books that Torque IS NOT power. It is a componet of Horsepower, which is power. If the machine is a motorcycle, a car. a motorhome or a tank the LAWS of Physycs apply. Case in point. I have gas MH with 340 horsepower engine. A buddy of mine has a diesel MH with a 350 horsepower engine. Of his engine has a lot more Torque mine. However I can beat him up a mountain grade or enterance ramp any day of the week. This is because his MH weights 9,000 pounds more than mine!!! It is weight per horsepower NOT torque that allows me to do this. Physics and the real world do agree.

[DanTheRVMan]

uncleluap wrote:

427435 wrote:

uncleluap wrote:
argue till the cows come home but a known fact is this.
A 400Hp 500Lb torque gas engine will not propel a 34-38K lb MH up 7% grade at the same speed and ease as a ISL cummns 400HP 1250 lb torque engine
nor will it be as fuel efficient nor will it run as cool nor will it even last 1/10 what a cummins diesel will and thats why u do not see this happening in this day and age.

Sorry, but you are wrong as far as how fast. Speed will be determined by hp. If the gas engine has enough transmission speeds to keep the engine at or near it's peak hp, it will keep up with a diesel of the same hp. The only caveat to that would be at higher altitudes where the turbo'd diesel would gain an advantage as its hp would not drop off as fast. Of course, many gas car engines (and gas PU engines) are gaining turbos these days, so that caveat could disappear in the future.

I disagree.MH Too heavy and not enough torgue to keep up to the load faction to be equal to the diesel. it would take way too low of a gear ratio to attain what U claim.I suppose in some obscure land of theory(what your in) it may succeed but in my world(reality) there is no way no how and thats why U will not see such a situation as I aluded to in previous posts.SO in theory U may have a valid idea(point) But in REALITY there is no such situation

The determining factor for speed up hill is always weight/hp

see http://www.catrvclub.org/PDF_Docs/Understanding_Perf.pdf

I will agree you need to look at the curve and you need to consider degradation due to altitude for the nonturboed gas engines, but after that the answer is always weight/hp

the physics equations consider mass and they do not change when the mass is larger

HP = torque x RPM (I left out a constant)

both torque and RPM are good and both will increase HP.

[uncleluap]

427435 wrote:

uncleluap wrote:
argue till the cows come home but a known fact is this.
A 400Hp 500Lb torque gas engine will not propel a 34-38K lb MH up 7% grade at the same speed and ease as a ISL cummns 400HP 1250 lb torque engine
nor will it be as fuel efficient nor will it run as cool nor will it even last 1/10 what a cummins diesel will and thats why u do not see this happening in this day and age.

Sorry, but you are wrong as far as how fast. Speed will be determined by hp. If the gas engine has enough transmission speeds to keep the engine at or near it's peak hp, it will keep up with a diesel of the same hp. The only caveat to that would be at higher altitudes where the turbo'd diesel would gain an advantage as its hp would not drop off as fast. Of course, many gas car engines (and gas PU engines) are gaining turbos these days, so that caveat could disappear in the future.

I disagree.MH Too heavy and not enough torgue to keep up to the load faction to be equal to the diesel. it would take way too low of a gear ratio to attain what U claim.I suppose in some obscure land of theory(what your in) it may succeed but in my world(reality) there is no way no how and thats why U will not see such a situation as I aluded to in previous posts.SO in theory U may have a valid idea(point) But in REALITY there is no such situation

[Cloud_Dancer]

427435,
YOU asked, and I replied. AND, I stand by what I said.
Here's a question for you: What is YOUR point?

[427435]

Cloud Dancer wrote:

427435 wrote:

jmtandem wrote:

I am a retired Engineer also and designed engines. You can not argue with the equations above. they work for both gas and diesel,in fact any engine.
Let's keep it simple!! Go to any NASCAR race or drag strip. See that they are talking about weight/HP not torque to make there machines do something faster.
It also works for Motoehomes!!!

The purpose of a race car is to go fast. Horsepower is more important than torque as the car is relatively light and needs to possess violent acceleration and high top speeds. The discussion of this thread is to get a heavy motorhome up a mountain; horsepower is less important than torque. It is not the same desired results as what is needed in a race car. 40,000 pounds of MH towing a 3800 pound car behind up six percent grades that are miles and miles long. It is not the same thing. And what does the Holiday Inn reference mean?

In either case, speed on a race track or speed of a heavy MH up an incline----------the more hp, the faster you go. What a high torque rated engine may give you is less need to shift gears frequently.

Again, no one has explained how a high reving gas turbine (with torque levels under 300 ft-lbs) can move heavy tanks up steep inclines if it is only engine torque that does it.

It's THRUST that propels that tank. And, if you give me the total gear ratio and the rolling radius of the track drive, I'll calculate the amount of thrust.

First, tanks don't use their gas turbines as thrust engines but as engines that turn a gearbox--------just like any other internal combustion engine powered vehicle (a gas turbine is an internal combustion engine, by the way).

Second, thrust is also what you get from the tire turning and pushing its vehicle along, so what is your point??

[427435]

uncleluap wrote:
argue till the cows come home but a known fact is this.
A 400Hp 500Lb torque gas engine will not propel a 34-38K lb MH up 7% grade at the same speed and ease as a ISL cummns 400HP 1250 lb torque engine
nor will it be as fuel efficient nor will it run as cool nor will it even last 1/10 what a cummins diesel will and thats why u do not see this happening in this day and age.

Sorry, but you are wrong as far as how fast. Speed will be determined by hp. If the gas engine has enough transmission speeds to keep the engine at or near it's peak hp, it will keep up with a diesel of the same hp. The only caveat to that would be at higher altitudes where the turbo'd diesel would gain an advantage as its hp would not drop off as fast. Of course, many gas car engines (and gas PU engines) are gaining turbos these days, so that caveat could disappear in the future.

[uncleluap]

so now we know U need HORSE POWER and TORQUE to make it work best

[Jarlaxle]

daveshan wrote:
I have one question for the HP is all that matters folks.

In the situation I posted back a while where you have a very slow turn right before a steep grade isn't it the torque that accelerates you up that grade? HP=HP is all fine and dandy when you're pulling grades on I-70 but I do mostly 2 lane (with the occasional passing area) mountain roads. Never had a gasser pass or tailgate me yet and I've passed more than a few.

No, it is the HORSEPOWER. If what you post ic correct, why not tow with a Poppin' Johnny? Lots of torque there...but, of course, it lacks HORSEPOWER, which is the IMPORTANT number! Basic physics!

[Cloud_Dancer]

topflite51 wrote:
It seems that the consensus opinion is and will always be -

Which ever I own is the best.😛

So be happy with whatever you own as you bought the best in your opinion that there is.:b

This doesn't work for me, because what I bought is NOT the best. In my life, whatever I've always shopped for, and bought,......there was ALWAYS something better. I've never been able to afford the best.