Wandering Nightmare

[karldavidson]

I just bought a Four Winds Citation 2006 with 12,000 miles on it. My first venture was a nightmare because it was virtually impossible to keep the RV on the road.

I have added the Safe-T-Plus and stabilizer bars on the rear, but neither has helped to a great degree. Had the alignment checked and it is okay.

My question is: Could it be that the Four Winds Citation - 26BE's wheelbase length is the culprit?

Example: The wheelbase on my rig is 171" and the total length is 27'4". The wheelbase of a shorter rig... the 24BB is 197" with a length of 26'5".

It appears that the steering problem is due to too much weight and length past the rear axle. This makes the front end too light, and therefore it wanders all over the road. Help Please... Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

[j-d]

That Jayco Granite Ridge shares the 218" wheelbase with our Escapade 31A. That gives us a nearly 60% WB-to-Length ratio, which provides a basis for good handling, including decent front axle loading. At 40,000 miles, status of ours is new steering linkage components and original ball joints OK per truck alignment shop. I read your account of replacing the balljoints and think I could DIY that job at home. If I could remove the knuckle, should I be able to press the joints with an auto supply loaner tool? Did you install offset bushings? Adjustable ones like Ingalls 594 or the equivalent from Moog?
Our mods are Front/Rear Hellwig Sway Bars and BlueOx (same as Henderson/SuperSteer) Rear Track bar. Still has OEM shocks.
What Alignment Angles did you set it to? Ours drives what I'll call OK. It isn't White Knuckle, but it does require total concentration. I don't advocate driving while daydreaming, but this is a matter of constant attention. Any distraction usually results in needing a quick (but minor) course correction. I guess I'd call the tracking "vague."
I'm considering doing any major front end work in the next year. Before I get any older!

[rbutton]

Finally have a moment to post back about the suspension upgrades I made and how the RV drove. Now consider this is a 2004 jayco 31 foot MH! A lot of weight and length! I drove about 1200 miles.

I drove mostly on interstates and to my surprise I found my speed was touching 70+ often and I never even noticed it. The RV felt tight and zero wander. Going through the corners the RV had a LOT less sway - still some but a lot less. Trucks going by no longer pushed me off to he aide of the road!

My opinion - ball joints, alignment and tires made a marked improvement in the handling. Steering damper a slight improvement. Shocks not as much for the cost of them. The sway bars a marked improvement in the handling, as they made the RV feel tighter and that the driver had more control over it.

That's my opinion after all the changes I've made to the MH suspension.

[ron_dittmer]

JJCruiser wrote:

If we lived close enough to eachother, I'd ask for your old tires to donate them to the charity I volunteer at Willow Creek CARS Ministry. Those tires would be a real blessing to a poor handy-man with bald tires on his work van.

Do you travel my way once in a while? I live near Elgin, IL.

Unfortunately a MapQuest search shows that it would be 6 hours round trip. I would gladly let you have the tires for the CARS Ministry if we lived closer.

That surely is not worth a trip for either of us. Oh well.

[JJCruiser]

If we lived close enough to eachother, I'd ask for your old tires to donate them to the charity I volunteer at Willow Creek CARS Ministry. Those tires would be a real blessing to a poor handy-man with bald tires on his work van.

Do you travel my way once in a while? I live near Elgin, IL.

Unfortunately a MapQuest search shows that it would be 6 hours round trip. I would gladly let you have the tires for the CARS Ministry if we lived closer.

[ron_dittmer]

Harvard wrote:
QUOTE: "Just make sure the tire pressure is maintained and they'll service us for 10-12 years. Serious sidewall or in-between-the-threads cracking would be my only reason to replace them as I don't think I'll be wearing them out."

Is that how long tires will last in Illinois?
What about in NM, AZ or S CA?

I would imagine the desert regions are very hard on tires. I suppose different rules for different environments.

I can only speak for our particular situation where our tires don't see light or temperature extremes when at home. I think "ideal" storage offers monumental benefits. Not just tires, but every category from mechanical to cosmetic, seals/caulk/gaskets etc. etc.

[Harvard]

QUOTE: "Just make sure the tire pressure is maintained and they'll service us for 10-12 years. Serious sidewall or in-between-the-threads cracking would be my only reason to replace them as I don't think I'll be wearing them out."

Is that how long tires will last in Illinois?
What about in NM, AZ or S CA?

[ron_dittmer]

JJCruiser wrote:

I don't feel the same about a front HD sway bar. I would definitely get that now.

Thanks Ron. I agree. I just ordered the front sway bar. Found a better deal from SDTruckSprings.com for $199 ($225 w/ shipping). This should complete the suspension upgrades. But then I have new tires to look forward to next spring. I still have good tread and the sidewalls look good but they are the original 2007 Michelins.

Sounds like a good price. Good for you.

About your tires, we have 17,000 miles on our 2007 2350 and like you, we don't have any cracking of sidewalls. Given they are "E" rated tires on our light weight 9,200 pound rig (10,200-ish on trips), I don't plan on buying new tires anytime soon. Just make sure the tire pressure is maintained and they'll service us for 10-12 years. Serious sidewall or in-between-the-threads cracking would be my only reason to replace them as I don't think I'll be wearing them out.

If we lived close enough to eachother, I'd ask for your old tires to donate them to the charity I volunteer at Willow Creek CARS Ministry. Those tires would be a real blessing to a poor handy-man with bald tires on his work van.

Do you travel my way once in a while? I live near Elgin, IL.

[JJCruiser]

I don't feel the same about a front HD sway bar. I would definitely get that now.

Thanks Ron. I agree. I just ordered the front sway bar. Found a better deal from SDTruckSprings.com for $199 ($225 w/ shipping). This should complete the suspension upgrades. But then I have new tires to look forward to next spring. I still have good tread and the sidewalls look good but they are the original 2007 Michelins.

[ron_dittmer]

JJ, I think waiting on the shocks is wise. You can do that if you later determine it to be neccessary. I don't feel the same about a front HD sway bar. I would definitely get that now.

Admittedly we had our shocks replaced per the recommendation of our shop, but I wonder how our rig would do with everything else, minus the better HD shocks. One thing about motor homes, a softer ride is a better ride, as long as there is little to no sacrifice in handling.

I suppose I could try the mid setting on our Konis. But as you can see, I am not motivated enough to find out.

[JJCruiser]

Consider getting a heavy duty front stabilizer bar. It will come in very handy when sloloming down canyon and mountain byways. If you suddenly have to brake hard, both front wheels will remain firmly planted on the road for better traction on the turns, as well as better braking. It's a huge contribution to safety, and you will also benefit some while on the open road. I think that would be much more benefitial than say getting better shocks. A front heavy duty stabilizer bar is both affordable and easy to install.

Thanks Ron, I have added that to the list. I see that I can get a Hellwig 7008 Front Sway Bar for $232 w/ free shipping. In looking at the installation instructions, it does not look too challenging. I think am going to wait on the shocks. I drove over a couple of railroad crossings this last weekend at ~50 mph and the shocks handled them very well. I am not sure if my shocks are original equipment or not. Plus the passenger side rear shock has an upper bolt right next to the metal heat guard above the muffler. I can see that bolt being a real headache.

[JJCruiser]

It's a subjective/personal thing, but I wonder if the expense of adding all the suspension etc., upgrades is really worth the cost.

I can only speak for myself on this one, but I believe adding safety margin in the operation of my RV is worth the cost. To date I have added just over $1500 (including tax and shipping) on the suspension updates. I did save a bit by doing the installation myself. It's hard to predict what one may encounter while driving. The way I see it, these improvements could make the difference between a close call and a really bad day. Plus it makes the trip more enjoyable when I am not fighting the road along the way. It would have been better if the handling was already optimized coming out of the factory.

[ron_dittmer]

Motor homes vary in chassis manufacture & model (ie: Ford E350/E450, Chevy 3500/4500, Sprinter diesel), wheel base, aerodynamics, percentage of rear over-hang, center of gravity, over-all weight & weight distribution. These variables influence handling characteristics by a whole lot. Even the same exact motor home brand and model can have a slight different handling personality pending a slide out option and how and with what the owner loads his rig with. Commuting with a full tank of fresh water versus no water can be of influence.

Think of it this way. Consider a typical pickup truck, say the popular F150. When you drive it empty, it handles one way. Load the bed heavy between axles and it handles differently. Move that load rear of the rear axle and it handles differently again. Shift the load to one side and it changes again. Tow another vehicle and it handles yet differently again. Same truck, differnet loads, or with the same load distributed differently, it dramatically changes how the truck handles.

Now change the truck to an F250 or F350 and try it all over again. People will claim a difference in the way the pickup truck handles.

Motor homes deal with all that plus additional variables with flavors of wheel bases and extended bodies behind of the rear axle. Also are varieties of aerodynamics. The result is a much wider variety of owner opinions on whether suspension upgrades are neccessary.

It comes down to this. If you don't like the way your rig handles, you can do something.... or do many things to get satisfaction.

JJCruiser and I happen to have the exact same brand, model, and configuration.

JJ,
Consider getting a heavy duty front stabilizer bar. It will come in very handy when sloloming down canyon and mountain byways. If you suddenly have to brake hard, both front wheels will remain firmly planted on the road for better traction on the turns, as well as better braking. It's a huge contribution to safety, and you will also benefit some while on the open road. I think that would be much more benefitial than say getting better shocks. A front heavy duty stabilizer bar is both affordable and easy to install.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

I recently upgraded the wheels so I could go from 225/75R16 to 235/85R16 tires. There has been an improvement in stability. Road noise is also reduced.

They effectively changed the rear end from 456:1 to 419:1. There seems to be little, if any, change in mileage on the highway--but there is an improvement around town.

Cost to do so was about $4000.00 including 7 new wheels, 7 tires, and a wheel alignment.

[Bordercollie]

It's a subjective/personal thing, but I wonder if the expense of adding all the suspension etc., upgrades is really worth the cost. We have been driving Class C's for many years without these enhancements. I have been unnerved driving in thunder showers with extreme wind turbulence and by steady pounding from cupped concrete interstate highway pavement on I-80, and doubt whether these things can be improved much.

[JJCruiser]

Well I got the chance to test drive the RV this weekend after the enhancements have been installed. To date I have added a Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer, a Rear Trac Bar (SuperSteer), a Rear Sway Bar (Roadmaster), and a Quiet Hitch to the tow bar.
It was a good test drive, about 200 miles round trip fully loaded with a combination of 2 lane blacktop roads and concrete interstate. We had 25 mph gusts and the RV handled well with no white knuckle moments. I did have to steer into the wind a bit but the rv stayed very controllable in the gusts. The best part of the trip was when I was passed by the big tractor trailer trucks on I-80. I held on tight when the first truck passed not knowing what to expect, and it was like the truck was not even there. Not believing it I waited for the next truck and with each truck that passed as I was doing 65 on a very windy day, no effect on the rv.
I am encourage by the test drive this weekend. However, I want to log few hundred more miles under varying conditions before I claim victory.