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Ye ole steering wander problem...

goufgators
Explorer
Explorer
This question/comments is in regard to a 2017 Thor Freedom Elite 29FE. The problem is the old story of steering wander. I’ve had the wheels balanced and the front end aligned. I tried to get the alignment guy to set the alignment at 5 degrees toe in as I’ve heard that is good to help with the wandering problem. He refused to agree to that request. I’ve got the tires aired to comply with weight. So, after doing all the above, the wandering problem still exists. Question for those of you who have put add-ons such as steer safe or trac bars, what did you add that made an appreciable difference? I’d like to know your opinions re: add-ons before I venture down that road. (I’ll also add this post to the Class C forum)
2017 Winnebago Sunstar (gas)
2005 Honda CRV Toad
Invisi-brake
27 REPLIES 27

Sam_Spade
Explorer
Explorer
j-d wrote:
John told me he's found adding an S-T-P is "like setting Caster to 5 degrees."


Not exactly.

It depends upon what the CAUSE of the problem is.
If it is the typical 350/450 design defect having the alignment set improperly.....then a "steering stabilizer" won't solve that.

But of course a shop that sells and installs S-T-P's is going to promote them......even sometimes when not appropriate.

FIX THE ALIGNMENT FIRST.
'07 Damon Outlaw 3611
CanAm Spyder in the "trunk"

j-d
Explorer II
Explorer II
Admin wrote:
Well, I don't always get it right. If you give me some time to make up an excuse I'll post it :E. Anyways it's fixed now. Admin


Thanks, Bro!

For OP: I visited Hendersons' Line Up specifically to meet John and talk about issues like this. Before meeting John I talked with their parts manager. It became apparent that Hendersons' promotes/installs specific parts from various manufacturers, that they consider best. For example:
They sell SuperSteer, of course,
And Roadmaster components (but Davis Track Bars since SS doesn't do front)
But for Steering Stabilizers, they go to Safe-T-Plus, breaking ranks with Roadmaster who offers RSS. John told me he's found adding an S-T-P is "like setting Caster to 5 degrees."

S-T-P categorizes their stabilizers by the spring pressure they produce, and they differentiate them by color. For a Class C, it'd be the Silver "140" series, meaning it uses 140 pounds of spring pressure to force the steering back to center.

Roadmaster offers RSS in RSS-C and RSS-A but I don't know what the pressures are.

Both involve removing the OEM Damper (horizontal shock abosorber with no Centering Force), and its brackets. Then you install a new set of brackets that adapt the S-T-P or RSS to your Make/Model/Year.

Then there's an Adjustment Process to make the device force steering to the "Center" you need for most of your driving. There are YouTube's showing how to do that.

I was ready to make a suggestion, but first, you say you've adjusted tire pressures according to axle weights. So let me ask:

1. Did you weigh it loaded as for travel, with People, Supplies and Stuff?

2, What were your Axle Weights?

3. What Tire Pressures are you using?

4. Are you towing a vehicle?

5. What vehicle?

6. Does the RV handle differently with and without that vehicle?

7. How?
If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

Admin
Moderator
Moderator
Well, I don't always get it right.
If you give me some time to make up an excuse I'll post it :E.
Anyways it's fixed now.

Admin
Admin
RV.net
.

Sam_Spade
Explorer
Explorer
j-d wrote:
Agreed! Really, MOD should have closed this thread and directed Class A OP's wanting to help, to the Class C thread. The 29FE is a C on Ford E450.


Well an ADMIN tried.....but got it backwards and closed the wrong thread.
'07 Damon Outlaw 3611
CanAm Spyder in the "trunk"

j-d
Explorer II
Explorer II
Agreed! Really, MOD should have closed this thread and directed Class A OP's wanting to help, to the Class C thread. The 29FE is a C on Ford E450.
John Henderson at Hendersons' Line Up (Grants Pass OR) was one of the first to notice the need for Rear Track Bars (technical term Panhard Rod) with live axle leaf springs and that led to the SuperSteer line of REAR track bars. Eric Davis (Eric's RV, Sequim WA) developed the Front Track Bar for Live Axle (Single I-Beam) chassis. Front Track Bar NOT needed with any form of Independent Front Suspension (IFS) because the axles, A-Frames, Struts, whatever's used, can't shift sideways with respect to the Chassis.
The E-Series Ford Class C chassis needs 5* Caster. I've met John Henderson and he told me 5* Left, 5.5* Right CASTER. Set Camber close to Zero or a fraction positive, and Toe slightly IN. I asked about 1/8" and he seemed to think OK, but they do it by degrees.
Sway/Stabilizer Bars help a LOT on the Fords, because Sway causes uncommanded Steer. I was going to start out with a Track Bar, but went Sway Bars (Hellwig) first. Huge improvement. Later added a BlueOx Rear Track Bar, slight improvement.
So the two big names in Track Bars are Davis for Front and SuperSteer (owned by Henderson) for Rear. BlueOx and Brazzels also market Rear Track Bars.
I also encountered Ralph Andrews, who used to be BlueOx's steering/handling expert. Before that, he designed most of the Rear Track Bars out there. Said they're the same bars made in the same shop with different Part Numbers, Colors and Marketing outlets. That's how I ended up with Blue Ox. Best price I could find.
Sway Bars? Roadmaster and Hellwig. Same specs, similar mountings, Hellwig price much lower.
If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

old_guy
Explorer
Explorer
if you were to go to youtube and look up "our great escape" and follow his videos on his class A with his steering problem. he went to several alignment shops and had a steering damper put on at his own expense, and it turned out the steering box was bad. when he first started talking about the problems I told him it was the steering box. turns out I was right. entegra finally along with the chassis maker, agreed to try a new box and it was driving right along the road as it should do.

wolfe10
Explorer
Explorer
Correct:

5 degrees caster with a 1/4 degree or so more on right to compensate for road crown.

1/8" toe-in
Brett Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38'FDDS
Ex: 1997 Safari 35'
Ex: 1993 Foretravel U240

Diesel RV Club:http://www.dieselrvclub.org/

RLS7201
Explorer II
Explorer II
goufgators wrote:
This question/comments is in regard to a 2017 Thor Freedom Elite 29FE. The problem is the old story of steering wander. I’ve had the wheels balanced and the front end aligned. I tried to get the alignment guy to set the alignment at 5 degrees toe in as I’ve heard that is good to help with the wandering problem. He refused to agree to that request. I’ve got the tires aired to comply with weight. So, after doing all the above, the wandering problem still exists. Question for those of you who have put add-ons such as steer safe or trac bars, what did you add that made an appreciable difference? I’d like to know your opinions re: add-ons before I venture down that road. (I’ll also add this post to the Class C forum)


5 degrees of toe in on 32" diameter tires is 2.8" of toe in.
You alignment guy was correct in not doing what you ask.
I believe what you wanted was 5 degrees of caster. So you confused the issue. I suggest 3/32" to 1/8" total toe in, or 0.20 to 0.25 degrees of toe in.

Richard
95 Bounder 32H F53 460
2013 CRV Toad
2 Segways in Toad
First brake job
1941 Hudson

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
The other thing I added is a Blue-ox Tru-Center.. (Steering stabilizer)

I choose it because I can "re-center" from the driver's seat, No need for a wrench, or hammer, Or even getting out of the chair.

Safe-T-Steer now offers that as an option as well.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
The big problem with class A's is NOT steering wander but "Wag" I am old enough to remember when they first came out with "independent Front Suspension" on pick up trucks.. Before that Pick ups had solid front axle like a motor home..

What is the advantage?
Leaf springs allow the vehicle to move up and down relative to the axle, of course, but what most folks do not know is they also allow it to move SIDE TO SIDE.

Now imagine the rear moves right while the front moves left. then they swap, the front moving right while the rear moves left.. Kind of like a dog's tail wagging.

This is WAG

How do you fix it: Track bars.. I am told that a REAR track bar (on your ford I'd go with ultra power's) is most effective but I put a Davis on the front of my gasser (Workhorse) and .. Well. very effective. I may do the UP later on the rear.

These "Lock" the body in position, side to side wise. Very effective.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times

Solo
Explorer
Explorer
Goufgaters, you should get a number of comments from the C group but, since you have a Class C instead of an A and since you posted here too, I'll throw in my experience. We owned a Winnebago Aspect 23D for over 10 years and worked on the handling characteristics considerably. It sounds like you've tried a number of "fist things" like air pressure and alignment. Unfortunately, getting an alignment shop to take your caster to 5+ degrees (I assume you told them 5 degrees caster-not toe) is critical in getting the E-series van chassis to handle. It is not a difficult procedure for a shop to do if they are willing to use an adjustable caster bushing. This is not a standard Ford item so perhaps, that is why they were reluctant but, my suggestion is to find a shop who will do the alignment you request. I also put an additional 1/8" of positive toe and close to zero camber on our E-450. Those settings for me provided the best result in our situation.

The Ingalls bushing (and others available at NAPA, Autozone, etc) make this job simple.



Unless you get the caster where almost all who have worked with the E-series chassis in a motorhome environment suggest, you will be chasing handling with fixes that will have minimal impact in my opinion.
Solo
2011 Itasca Ellipse 42QD, 450 HP ISL Cummins
2012 Jeep JKU with SMI DUO Braking System

rgatijnet1
Explorer III
Explorer III
Is the front axle loaded close to the maximum axle weight when you travel? If it is too light it tends to aggravate the wandering.

msturtz
Explorer
Explorer
Yep had the same problem with our class C. Roadmaster Reflex steering stabilizer. Made a huge difference.
FMCA member