Android-Apple-Microsoft

[tmmar]

Looking to get a tablet for the wife and am not sure which way to go. I see many Android tablets that look fairly decent but haven't tried any. I used an Apple for a while but found the operating system not that intuitive. Tried the Microsoft Surface 2 and liked the Windows 8 operating system and the fact that it had a version of Office with Word/Excel but can't find anyone who discounts it from the $449 price. She likes to down load books from the local library and will also use it to access the internet.
Any help and guidance is appreciated.

[1775]

Before buying a Microsoft Tablet right now - read this article (posted on another thread on this forum) -

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/26/microsoft-kill-windows-rt-larson-green

[mileshuff]

wa_desert_rat wrote:
I don't want to call you a liar... but my experience running a network engineering and computer consulting business for 19 years would say that you are the most unusual Windows user I've ever heard of.

My experience in computer programming, engineering, networking etc. dates back to the 1970's. Have used or owned everything from decades before Windows or the internet thru current Windows, Unix, Linux, Apple etc. OS's. Have never had any virus or malware on any of my Windows PC's although others at my work have but then, they've have Macs end up trashed with destructive malware as well. It tends to be operator related. Certain people tend to repeatedly have their PC's or Macs trashed. Knowing what to click on or open is key. My companies Macs overall have NOT been any more or less reliable than Windows PC's. However, the Windows PC's are easier and cheaper to repair and maintain.

[RFCN2]

The original poster asked about tablets. My only tablet is a 2 year 2 month old iPad 2. It has worked flawlessly since new. I keep thinking about getting a new one, but my old one works fine. I have had exactly zero issues with updates and like the new IOS7 quite a bit. I have played with a Nexus 7 and it is a slick 7" tablet that costs next to nothing and has a very good screen, as does the iPad 2. By far the iPad is a nicer looking device. It is "jewell like" in appearance. The Nexus 7 looks like it costs a lot less.

In my humble opinion the key with tablets is having apps you need/ want. Apple has a lot and so does Android. I have the Allstays iPad ap as well as the Android Allstayes ap on my Android phone. Both work well. Windows tablets so far have a lot less apps.

On the other hand regular computers come in Windows, Linux, and Mac flavors. I have used all three. They all work and have advantages and disadvantages. Windows big disadvantage is that it's OS gets slow after a year or two no matter what you do to clean defrag and so on. MS has never fixed this issue as they have no motivation to do so and it is in their interest for people to need a new computer more frequently.

I currently have three Microsoft laptops. I Vista, 2 Windows 7. The old Vista one still works fine as my wife hardly has ever put any programs on it. I do have to de virus /spy it. It has Norton on it again and is staying pretty clean. Firefox got infected by a Trojan not too long ago and I just could not get rid of it. So removed FF and put in Chrome. Problem solved. My 3 1/2 year old Sony W 7 laptop was a high end machine and I have used it a lot. It is pretty slow now and to improve it much would have to re-install Windows. A royal PITA. My 2 year old mid range Toshiba works pretty good still. Somewhat gummed up, but I have never put a huge amount of programs on it. I also have a seven month old Mac Book Pro. All solid state. Without a doubt the best laptop hardware I have ever owned, by a mile. Apple makes superior hardware. IMHO better than anyone else. But it has Apple OS. This is fine for many things but not so great for work that uses Windows documents like Word and Excell. And some /many programs will not work on Apple OS. I know about boot camp. But why add something I know to cause problems to something that does not have them. In the less than a year I have had this computer it has run flawlessly. No anti virus or anti spy software on mine. No problems.

I have also used Ubantu Linux on a couple of computers. It works quite well. Free. But most programs will not run on it. Hard to find good photo editing software for it that is easy to use like Picasa. The Libra Office works slick though. Better than the Apple stuff for MS docs.

Google also makes sort-a laptops. They are only on line. These are very limited machines.

All this stuff is valid. None junk. None perfect. The best tablet might be an iPad with Android on it. And the best laptop might be a Mac Book Pro with MicroSoft W 7. I own stock in all of them. They are all making money.

[realter]

Where is my popcorn?

[wa_desert_rat]

ReadyToGo wrote:
Desert rat: you are funny. Maybe you protest to much? Why does Apple constantly ship security updates? Why is their browser the first to be cracked at all the hacker conventions where money is involved for the last 3 or 4 or more years?
Why doesn't Apple tell you there is a security breach ie the flashback breach for 2 or 3 months after it was found?
And how many times has Itunes been conpromised? at least twice I believe. But that must be because they use Windows for their OS? This might be true as business know that the only business OS is Windows.
100 percent on Windows? Wow, that means there are non on Macs? Talk about hyperbole.
Have your opinion, but at least make an attempt to keep it truthfull.

Again, arguing that Apple can be cracked does not answer the question about Windows. Nor is arguing that Linux can be cracked a defense. Every time someone brings up the insecurities of Windows the answer is "well, Linux has been cracked" or "Apple's OSX has been cracked". Like my wife's argument that I snore is why she doesn't rinse her plate, it is not an argument; it's an evasion.

Why is it that you can download Malwarebytes in its current form and load it onto Windows XP as easily as Windows 8.1 and have it operate in exactly the same way; looking for exactly the same malware?

Why does Microsoft produce - and offer free for a download - an add-on product that removes malware instead of making their operating system less susceptable to malware. Why wouldn't they just fix the OS? And why doesn't MS include that product with their OS instead of making users discover it, download it, and install it themselves?

But, since several of you have brought up specific OS-X problems there is this: "... the Sophos survey, which is based on 100,000 users of its free Mac OS X antivirus software. Notably, Sophos found that only 2.7% of all scanned Macs harbored Mac-compatible malware, adware, or other suspicious software. (In comparison, some studies that estimate that nearly half of all Windows machines harbor such software.)..."

And really... try to actually respond to my points rather than simply point out problems elsewhere. Although, frankly, my wife can't do it, either. 🙂

Craig

[ReadyToGo]

Desert rat: you are funny. Maybe you protest to much? Why does Apple constantly ship security updates? Why is their browser the first to be cracked at all the hacker conventions where money is involved for the last 3 or 4 or more years?
Why doesn't Apple tell you there is a security breach ie the flashback breach for 2 or 3 months after it was found?
And how many times has Itunes been conpromised? at least twice I believe. But that must be because they use Windows for their OS? This might be true as business know that the only business OS is Windows.
100 percent on Windows? Wow, that means there are non on Macs? Talk about hyperbole.
Have your opinion, but at least make an attempt to keep it truthfull.

[wa_desert_rat]

tmmar wrote:
Looking to get a tablet for the wife and am not sure which way to go. I see many Android tablets that look fairly decent but haven't tried any. I used an Apple for a while but found the operating system not that intuitive. Tried the Microsoft Surface 2 and liked the Windows 8 operating system and the fact that it had a version of Office with Word/Excel but can't find anyone who discounts it from the $449 price. She likes to down load books from the local library and will also use it to access the internet.
Any help and guidance is appreciated.

Android and Apple tablets operate in much the same way. The apps are different and the way you get the apps are different. Apple carefully tests apps for problems before they get on their iTunes site; and unless you alter the tablet, the iTunes site is the only place you can get apps.

The Android apps are not as carefully screened and there are other places to get apps that may not be screened at all.

I prefer Android because it's much more versatile for a sophisticated user. But for a new user it could be more problemmatic from a security standpoint. I would recommend the iPad device.

The Windows tablets seem well built from a hardware standpoint and I suspect that the security issues Windows has with PCs is less of an issue with tablets due to the architecture. So that would be second choice... but much farther down the list due to the lack of apps.

Craig

[wa_desert_rat]

infoimp wrote:

And it IS true that you don't have to get malware on a Window's system. It DOES depend on where you go on the Internet and what links you click and what you sign up for with your GOOD email address. You DO have a temp account that you can use for newsletters, etc, right? 🙂

Just my 2c worth...

Norma

Why do you have to be careful where you go on the Internet and what links you click on? Why would clicking a link on a browser app put malware on your computer? Because that does not put malware on a Linux computer. Even a stock Linux computer. And, trust me, it's not that someone isn't trying.

Nobody seems to find this unreasonable.

My ex-partner is now the IT director at a fairly large hospital. A major part of his job is to make sure that hospital employees - who all use Windows - can't surf the Internet. Not that they care that much about buying stuff at Amazon but that surfing will infect their desktops with a virus which will, inevitable, find its way throughout their LAN. So they have VLANs set up (using Cisco - not cheap) giving one network for employees that is carefully and throughly locked down, one network for independent doctors who demand freedom, and one network for visitors and patients which is wide open (mostly).

And all because any user with a Windows computer and Internet Explorer can simply mouse over a pixel on a bad web page and load malware onto their computer.

I just cleared off 250 pieces of malware from a staff member of one of my clients and charged them $100 an hour to do it. He actually got an email from the ISP complaining that he had to clean up his virus infected computer. He had Symantec on it but apparently it wasn't up to the job.

This is far from unusual.

My wife, who really doesn't go to any nasty web sites, has me scan her laptop with Malwarebytes every week and every week there is something on there. PuP, usually. Tracking software. The odd virus. A trojan. Yet I spend a few hours on my Linux computer and I can surf porn, cruise Jeep web sites and open any odd attachment in any email I want to with pretty certain knowledge that unless I've given someone my root password, it's not going to cause me any grief.

Why have we put up with this for a decade or more? If Chevrolet made cars that required drivers to go out and buy extra parts just so they wouldn't stop in the middle of an intersection... or had to avoid certain streets or cities... or could only park at their house and two or three other places then no one would buy them. But the equivalent in computers is not just accepted, it's defended. Almost like it's a religion. And you PAY for it, too.

I'm not trying to start an OS war here. I'd really like to know. What is the draw to Windows that makes you put up with all this?

Craig

[infoimp]

If you're going to read books and do email and surf a little, any of them will do.

Yes, your iPad will bring more money when you decide to swap, but the apps are only available on iTunes, which is ok if you swap to another Apple product. Some apps can be shared with your smartphone if you have an iPhone.

Windows is fine and has tons of apps and she's probably already familiar with it.

I have an Android smartphone and Windows on my computers. They can't share apps, but I use them for different things.

If I were going to do just the above, I'd buy a Kindle Fire. It's Android based and they have their own app store you can use your Amazon account with.

{My credentials? In the computer biz since 1985, starting with Commodore 64. Master's degree in Computer Information Science.)

And it IS true that you don't have to get malware on a Window's system. It DOES depend on where you go on the Internet and what links you click and what you sign up for with your GOOD email address. You DO have a temp account that you can use for newsletters, etc, right? 🙂

Just my 2c worth...

Norma

[wa_desert_rat]

sch911 wrote:

wa_desert_rat wrote:
My only issue with Windows is that every single computer with any version of Windows ALWAYS gets malware.

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more! Have run every version of Windows on many devices over the last 20 years, and never had malware of any kind. It's all about where you surf, and what you choose.

I don't want to call you a {deleted}.....but my experience running a network engineering and computer consulting business for 19 years would say that you are the most unusual Windows user I've ever heard of.

You do have anti-virus and spyware protection though, right?

Craig


Moderator's Note: Then is it necessary to preface your comment in this manner?

[wa_desert_rat]

Dutch_12078 wrote:

I wonder why Apple found it necessary to issue at least two patches last year to stop the "Flashback" vulnerability? Oh, maybe it was the 600,000 plus computers that were already infected by it. Intego, F-Secure, Sophos, and others, all make security software for Apple OS's. I wonder why that is...

As a long time Linux user and retired systems administrator/analyst, I'm well aware that any OS can be vulnerable to malware, especially when social engineering is involved.

You sound like my wife when I ask her, again, to rinse the dishes after she is finished (I wash the dishes in our house). Her immediate response is not to agree or disagree, or even to deny that she does it. Her response is to immediately accuse me of something. "Well, you snore!" As if that excuses what she did.

Whether or not Apple or Unix or Linux can - and have - been cracked is beside the point. The point is that every single Windows machine is vulnerable to malware to the point where the operator (see the posting above yours) has to be careful about where he/she surfs. And, worse yet, they're vulnerable to the same malware they were vulnerable to in 2003. The only reason the average Windows machine does not get exploited to the point of uselessness (and many do, anyway) is that they have firewalls and spyware/malware/trojan/virus protection. Usually paid for.

Yet users and businesses continue on buying the same problems over and over and relying on IT departments or consultants (or cousin Bobby) to fix it when, inevitably, it happens.

Ironically, MS sold its products to CEOs on the premise that they could get rid of their expensive IT departments staffed with IBM, DEC and HP professionals. "One desk, one computer" they told them. And the CEOs ate it up. Of course, now their IT departments are bigger tha ever and new technology makes the job harder than ever. Just try to explain to a CEO why you are afraid to put their Exchange server out on the Internet with a static IP so they can all read their email on smartphones. This was, in fact, one reason so many companies (and government agencies) preferred the Blackberry.

Why do corporations continue to put up with it? I don't think they know that there are alternatives. With a staff of MSCE people, who knows they can put a Linux box ahead of their Exchange box and get more secure email?

Craig

[Dutch_12078]

wa_desert_rat wrote:

Worse yet, MS cannot make their OS secure. If they could, they'd have done it already instead of producing add-on utilities just like McAfee, et. al. Why would the company that developed Windows have to produce an add-on product (which does not come with Windows... you have to download it free) to fix its security problems? Why couldn't MS - with access, after all, to the source code and the APIs - just fix the OS? The answer, my friends, is that MS cannot fix it without breaking it and requiring all the developers to re-write their applications from scratch. Something Apple did a long time ago with OS-X.

Craig 🙂

I wonder why Apple found it necessary to issue at least two patches last year to stop the "Flashback" vulnerability? Oh, maybe it was the 600,000 plus computers that were already infected by it. Intego, F-Secure, Sophos, and others, all make security software for Apple OS's. I wonder why that is...

As a long time Linux user and retired systems administrator/analyst, I'm well aware that any OS can be vulnerable to malware, especially when social engineering is involved.

[sch911]

wa_desert_rat wrote:
My only issue with Windows is that every single computer with any version of Windows ALWAYS gets malware.

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more! Have run every version of Windows on many devices over the last 20 years, and never had malware of any kind. It's all about where you surf, and what you choose.

[wa_desert_rat]

My only issue with Windows is that every single computer with any version of Windows ALWAYS gets malware. Yes, they have 94% of the market. But they get 100% of the infections. As far as "easy to use" that's only once you re-learn all the things MS changed from one iteration to the next in every single product. If they don't change things then they can't charge people for taking the certification exams.

Worse yet, MS cannot make their OS secure. If they could, they'd have done it already instead of producing add-on utilities just like McAfee, et. al. Why would the company that developed Windows have to produce an add-on product (which does not come with Windows... you have to download it free) to fix its security problems? Why couldn't MS - with access, after all, to the source code and the APIs - just fix the OS? The answer, my friends, is that MS cannot fix it without breaking it and requiring all the developers to re-write their applications from scratch. Something Apple did a long time ago with OS-X.

Malwarebytes, in its present iteration, can be installed by a download onto every version of Windows from XP to 8.1 and work exactly the same way; finding exactly the same malware. It's that "backwards compatibility" that exacerbates the existing built-in security flaws of the MS operating systems.

The same thing goes for SpybotSD. And other scanners. The only reason they need "updates" is to add data for new malware. They don't need any updates to be suitable for all iterations of Windows from XP to 8.1; not even for 64bit versions.

Now, someone is going to post, "Windows has most of the market so it's natural that it would get most of the attacks." This is hogwash. I have a dozen Linux/Unix servers with static IP addresses that get attacked thousands of times every hour (I can post the logs if you want) yet do not ever get "infected". But a Windows computer, behind a firewall and loaded with anti-virus protection will still have to be "scanned" once a week to remove malware. Windows machines don't get most of the attacks... but they get most of the ones that succeed.

If you want to use Windows that's fine by me. I get a fair bit of income every year just fixing the inevitable security issues. Just don't claim that it's as dependable or secure as *nix based operating systems. Because it is clearly not. And I have a hard time figuring out why corporate America puts up with it.

/rant

Craig 🙂

[mileshuff]

As for tablets for me there is little that an iPad can do that an Android tablet can't but the opposite is very true. My company uses Android tablets running custom Apps for everything from electronic data acquisition, custom data entry Apps, 3D CAD drawing viewing etc. No way could an iPad even attempt to do this.

iPads do not have superior CPU's, graphic engines, screens etc. to warrant the highly inflated prices. The ONLY benefit is for those who prefer iOS over Android. In that regard both function very similar so its user preference. Android does have greater ability to customize the user experience through lower level settings and custom Apps that iOS lacks.