Surge Protector Yes Or No?

[diazr2]

Hi Folks
I am new to this forum but not new to RVing. Matter of fact I am too damn old to the RVing thing. That leads me to this question and anybody that could help would be greatly appreciated. I have seen many posts about surge protectors and how you just have to have them. I have been RVing for over 40 years stayed in a lot of places some nice some not so nice. I have never used a surge protector. My problem is 40 years ago there was not all of this new technology. I mean you had a Television with a tube. You had a radio with an antenna and some lights Shoot they didn't even have an electric frig for goodness sake. Anyway. All this technology comes along I keep up with it for sure. I still have no surge protector and still have not had any trouble. I still park the rig at some nice places and some not so nice places. Am I just biding my time whats the odds I am going to get bitten by this lack of security. Then if I find I need one which ones actually work and witch ones are just a money grabber? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

TechWriter wrote:


I have a hard-wired 50A 40240 and the only protection missing from the comparable PI unit is 220V.

A documented 220V event - The electrician said "oops" - winner & losers

Kinda like (the song) Nadine - "I was campaign shoutin' like a Southern diplomat".
(But - didn't help)

And another 220V "mistake"

Progressive Industries 30 and 50 amp EMS (quote):

"If 240V is detected when plugging into AC power, the EMS will NOT allow power to the RV.
If this condition occurs while power is applied to the RV, the EMS shuts off power instantly".
(end quote)

BTW - I like lifetime warranties (on anything) also!.:C


.

[myredracer]

TechWriter wrote:

myredracer wrote:
An EMS or whatever you want to call it, as said many times, is a great idea and cheap insurance.

You can either get a quality US made Progressive Industries one with a lifetime warranty or one of the off-shore models with a 1 year warranty. Based on warranty alone - easy decision....

So if a unit is not made in the states -- let's say Canada, for example -- that would be a reason not to buy, right?

Besides the dictionary defining offshore as "situated at sea some distance from the shore", is Surge\Guard made in Canada?

Read the warranties carefully.

myredracer wrote:

One thing I like about the PI EMS is that it shuts you down at 104 volts while the other popular one shuts down at 102 volts. 102V IMO is too low. I read in one AC manufacturer's manual recently that anything lower than 105V can cause damage and I've found that 105 is a commonly mentioned threshold where you should manually shut down if you don't have automatic protection.

You appear to say that 105V is as low as you should go. I agree. That's why I bought an auto former.

But neither PI or TRC units meet that 105V criteria. No, but PI is closer by 2 volts. Of course an autoformer will address low supply voltage conditions below 105 volts, but the original question was to do with surge protection only.

myredracer wrote:

Progressive Industries have a number of additional features as this chart shows: Progressive Industries versus SurgeGuard This makes it even easier to decide. 🙂

Depends on the unit. I have a hard-wired 50A 40240 and the only protection missing from the comparable PI unit is 220V.

Actually, there's at least 5 categories that the SurgeGuard 40240 doesn't match, one of which is that the EMS can be bypassed in case the computer fails, but Surgeguard can't. Also, if you have a surge that shuts down either unit, the EMS can be sent back for repair but the SurgeGuard is a throw-away. It's not possible to do a detailed apples to apples comparison because neither manufacturer has complete specs on everything, but there are enough benefits to PI that would make me buy one.

[TechWriter]

myredracer wrote:
An EMS or whatever you want to call it, as said many times, is a great idea and cheap insurance.

You can either get a quality US made Progressive Industries one with a lifetime warranty or one of the off-shore models with a 1 year warranty. Based on warranty alone - easy decision....

So if a unit is not made in the states -- let's say Canada, for example -- that would be a reason not to buy, right?

Read the warranties carefully.

myredracer wrote:

One thing I like about the PI EMS is that it shuts you down at 104 volts while the other popular one shuts down at 102 volts. 102V IMO is too low. I read in one AC manufacturer's manual recently that anything lower than 105V can cause damage and I've found that 105 is a commonly mentioned threshold where you should manually shut down if you don't have automatic protection.

You appear to say that 105V is as low as you should go. I agree. That's why I bought an auto former.

But neither PI or TRC units meet that 105V criteria.

myredracer wrote:

Progressive Industries have a number of additional features as this chart shows: Progressive Industries versus SurgeGuard This makes it even easier to decide. 🙂

Depends on the unit. I have a hard-wired 50A 40240 and the only protection missing from the comparable PI unit is 220V.

[myredracer]

An EMS or whatever you want to call it, as said many times, is a great idea and cheap insurance.

You can either get a quality US made Progressive Industries one with a lifetime warranty or one of the off-shore models with a 1 year warranty. Based on warranty alone - easy decision....

One thing I like about the PI EMS is that it shuts you down at 104 volts while the other popular one shuts down at 102 volts. 102V IMO is too low. I read in one AC manufacturer's manual recently that anything lower than 105V can cause damage and I've found that 105 is a commonly mentioned threshold where you should manually shut down if you don't have automatic protection.

Progressive Industries have a number of additional features as this chart shows: Progressive Industries versus SurgeGuard This makes it even easier to decide. 🙂

To add to this, don't be thinking that you will have the ultimate electrical protection by using an EMS (or equivalent) though. One other thing to be aware of is a "hot skin" and "bootleg ground" condition where a pedestal or outlet at a house can be improperly connected or you have a faulty shore power cord. An EMS will not detect these. This website is where to find out all about it: Hot skin info. and Bootleg ground info.You can also search username "jmsokol" on this forum. A non-contact voltage tester is a good tool (inexpensive too) to have in your RV.

[Monaco_Montclai]

Didn't know I needed one in the beging. Till pedestal side of my cord from the RV got melted. Want leave home without it now, plus a auto former two, now it's all happy-camping

[drsteve]

1775 wrote:
An RV surge/power protection unit such as Surge Guard or Progressive Industries will. The circuit inside the unit will blow with a lightening strike surge or transients. The unit is then unusable and needs to be replaced or with the Progressive sent back to the factory to have the surge circuit replaced for a price.

A quick look at the warranties from both these companies reveals that "Acts of God such as lightning strikes" are specifically excluded.

[Desert_Captain]

Disconnecting from the pedestal when a storm is eminent is plain old common sense. Obviously the likelihood of taking a direct or even nearby strike is low even in active lightning areas (like Tucson during the Monsoon).

The electrician who installed the heavy duty commercial grade surge protection system on our home said that actual strikes are not the main concern. The subsequent power surges that follow a strike in the area and can come long after the strike cause the majority of the damage. A good surge protection system, be it on a home or an RV, will protect from this type of damage and is one of the best reasons to invest in a quality SP. :C

[drsteve]

From this article

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/natural-disasters/lightning.htm

that explains lightning in great detail:

Surge protectors won't save your electronics (TV, VCR, PC) if lightning strikes your power line. Surge protectors provide protection for power surges in the line from the power company, but not for lightning. To really guard against strike damage, you need a lightning arrester. The arrester uses a gas-filled gap that acts as an open circuit to low potentials, but becomes ionized and conducts at very high potentials. If the lightning hits the line you are protecting, the gas gap will conduct the current safely to ground.

More on arresters here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_arrester

[TechWriter]

1775 wrote:

TechWriter wrote:

ventrman wrote:
I had a Storm that took out my TV at my House as well as my Computer, The TV was not Surge Protected, but the Computer was. Unfortunately, I had not protected the Telephone Line connected to my Computer. I do recommend them.

Generally, RV surge protectors are not going to protect you from lightning strikes or transients.

An RV surge/power protection unit such as Surge Guard or Progressive Industries will. The circuit inside the unit will blow with a lightening strike surge or transients. The unit is then unusable and needs to be replaced or with the Progressive sent back to the factory to have the surge circuit replaced for a price.

Good luck with that. When a storm's on the way, I disconnect from the pedestal.

[drsteve]

All surge protectors are not created equal. Basically, as in many other areas, you get what you pay for.

[1775]

TechWriter wrote:

ventrman wrote:
I had a Storm that took out my TV at my House as well as my Computer, The TV was not Surge Protected, but the Computer was. Unfortunately, I had not protected the Telephone Line connected to my Computer. I do recommend them.

Generally, RV surge protectors are not going to protect you from lightning strikes or transients.

An RV surge/power protection unit such as Surge Guard or Progressive Industries will. The circuit inside the unit will blow with a lightening strike surge or transients. The unit is then unusable and needs to be replaced or with the Progressive sent back to the factory to have the surge circuit replaced for a price.

[Redsky]

Surge protectors help in two situations, a 110 AC connection that has a problem (not at all rare in RV parks), and in areas with lots of severe electrical storm activity. Worst area by far in the nation is Florida and not all that much better are parts of Texas.

The more expensive the electronics the more worthwhile it is to invest in good surge suppression. Big difference between my first camper that only had a 12v water pump and tungsten lamps and my current one with electronics in the fridge, stereo, LCD TV, furnace thermostat, and inverter to which I took up laptops.

Each new generation of computing devices is more vulnerable to voltage spikes. The chips are faster and have more "transistors" in small spaces so there is less insulating material between them and it takes less of a surge to blow out a section.

The suppressors to avoid are the ones that a basically a power strip with a MOV chip soldered in place. The chip blows with the first surge and after that the attached equipment is more vulnerable than without the power strip.

Add up the cost to replace every piece of equipment in your RV that has electronics, including computers and satellite receivers and routers, and then compare that to the less than $200 price for a good surge suppressor.

What you were able to do 20 years ago is ancient history and best to try to stay abreast of the changes.

[TechWriter]

ventrman wrote:
I had a Storm that took out my TV at my House as well as my Computer, The TV was not Surge Protected, but the Computer was. Unfortunately, I had not protected the Telephone Line connected to my Computer. I do recommend them.

Generally, RV surge protectors are not going to protect you from lightning strikes or transients.

[Happytraveler]

If you go to an rv park with shaking electricity you better have a surge protecter. We bought a surge protecter 3 years ago only because of the horror stories we heard from people at some of the parks we have stayed.