Awesome Tool

[lawnspecialties]

While getting my cheap valve stems replaced today, I noticed the tire shop wasn't too knowledgeable about the torque recommendations. So I intervened to make sure they weren't going too tight. I told the guy 100 lbs. and he said, no problem, and went to get an extension. He didn't make any adjustments to the compressor or the impact gun. He just threw the extension on.

He went back to get another one of my tires that was ready so while he was gone, I looked at the extension. It has written on the side "100 lb. ft". But it looked like any other extension as far as I could tell. So obviously, I had to ask when he returned. He said it was a torque stick extension. My obvious response was "huh?". He then explained what they were and how they worked.

Way smarter than I am on how they work but I don't care. I'm ordering a set today. Should work perfectly with my DeWalt Cordless Impact Wrench.

Torque Sticks

[dave17352]

WTP-GC wrote:
Reading this thread further validates that the internet has created more mis-placed worry in people than God ever intended. Just remember, in the daylight you will cast a shadow...and it's not going to hurt you.

VERY VERY VERY TRUE!! I myself have been a victim at times!

[larry_barnhart]

My point is the same torque on all lug nuts. This is not what a tire store has done for me in years. I do it better and that is the end of my story.

chevman

[Puddles]

I've done statistical repeatability, reproducibility studies on torque wrenches... the only ones that pass are used in the aviation / space industry... doubt that tire shops will spend that kind of money.

[Puddles]

I've done statistical repeatability, reproducibility studies on torque wrenches... the only ones that pass are used in the aviation / space industry... doubt that tire shops will spend that kind of money.

[jfkmk]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Plain and simple they over torque because it's faster!

And they don't care!

[Cummins12V98]

Plain and simple they over torque because it's faster!

[WTP-GC]

dave54 wrote:

westend wrote:
...
I'm sorry but this is another jab at workers and it's getting pretty old to me. Is this the type of behavior that you do in the workplace, change your ethics, procedures, and work pace when not directly under supervision?
FWIW, I've worked in some shops where the employees were on a higher road and showed better customer appreciation than management. /rant..

The conscientious workers promote faster, the total slack offs do not last long at all. So the odds favor you will have a younger worker with marginal skills and average work ethic.

So what does the condition in the 2nd sentence say about the condition in the 1st sentence? That tells me that management sucks too, and they must have been promoted under false pretenses.

I believe that there are MANY good workers out there who care about the work they do, regardless of how menial their assignment is. I believe that there are good cops and bad cops, and that some Amish kids work more diligently in the assembly of our poorly-assembled RV's.

As a business owner myself, I can assure that good help is very difficult to find these days. Therefore, if we have an employee that is not doing their job as proficiently as they should be, we prefer to work with them, mentor them, help them understand the ultimate goal at hand and how to keep their job.

The tire shop I visit the most is a large chain operation. I won't sit in the waiting room watching Judge Judy, but instead I stand just outside the bay doors and watch the workers. In my case, the same people who are changing the tires also do the balancing, alignment, and virtually all other tasks. I've never one time seen them use a torque wrench or torque stick or any other form of torque measuring device on my tires/wheels. But for the last 15+ years, I've went to the same place and have never had any issues whatsoever. And since I rotate my own tires in my shop "most" of the time, I can tell you that I've never had a lug nut installed by them that was too tight. My parents have used the same shop for longer, and when I was involved with a different business, we took our company vehicles there too. Collectively we've experienced ZERO issues.

As I said earlier, fear and worry have overtaken the minds of many people. I choose to place my concerns elsewhere, and trust that consistency, experience and tried-and-true methods still rule the day.

[dave54]

westend wrote:
...
I'm sorry but this is another jab at workers and it's getting pretty old to me. Is this the type of behavior that you do in the workplace, change your ethics, procedures, and work pace when not directly under supervision?
FWIW, I've worked in some shops where the employees were on a higher road and showed better customer appreciation than management. /rant..

You are right, some workers do show a high degree of professionalism and follow procedures even when inconvenient. In my experience they are a small minority. In most tire shops the newly hired inexperienced are the tire changers, then work up to other jobs. The conscientious workers promote faster, the total slack offs do not last long at all. So the odds favor you will have a younger worker with marginal skills and average work ethic. Maybe you will get lucky and someone else is filling in for an absent tire changer, or you get one of the few really good ones. I will go with the odds. I double check the work as soon as I get home.

[westend]

dave54 wrote:

Durb wrote:
...

When you get home, loosen each nut one at a time and re-torque...

One at a time does not work if you three step your torque, as recommended in my owners manual. All have to be loose to start.


Agree about the tire shops. The manager/shop foreman may be as knowledgeable and experienced as they come, but he will not be the one in the back doing the work. It will most likely be some young fresh out of high school kid doing tire changes. He probably was trained the right way, but uses shortcuts and sloppy procedures when the boss is not looking.

I'm sorry but this is another jab at workers and it's getting pretty old to me. Is this the type of behavior that you do in the workplace, change your ethics, procedures, and work pace when not directly under supervision?
FWIW, I've worked in some shops where the employees were on a higher road and showed better customer appreciation than management. /rant

IMO, torquing lug nuts is not the exact science necessary for proper wheel installation that some profess. For steel wheels, there is quite a bit of latitude in the amount of torque applied. For aluminum wheels, as close as you an get is a good target. I know the tire shops use a gun setting and, depending on line pressure and quality of their tool, can vary a lot. They tend to over-torque because the alternative may be the loss of a wheel.

[dave54]

Durb wrote:
...

When you get home, loosen each nut one at a time and re-torque...

One at a time does not work if you three step your torque, as recommended in my owners manual. All have to be loose to start.


Agree about the tire shops. The manager/shop foreman may be as knowledgeable and experienced as they come, but he will not be the one in the back doing the work. It will most likely be some young fresh out of high school kid doing tire changes. He probably was trained the right way, but uses shortcuts and sloppy procedures when the boss is not looking.

[larry_barnhart]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Durb wrote:
Sold torque wrenches for 30 years and have performed extensive training to industrial end users regarding the correct way to use a torque wrench. Once a wrench clicks it is now a breaker bar and can be used to over torque the lug nut. A major tire chain I know examined their installers' technique and found they were tightening the lug nuts up to 200 ft-lb over the spec. Torque sticks are ok for pre-torqueing fasteners but final torque should be done with a torque wrench. I can guarantee that almost all tires installed at a shop have over torqued fasteners due to poor technique.

When you get home, loosen each nut one at a time and re-torque. Pull slowly on the wrench (don't push) and when it clicks stop. Make sure you chock your tires, any torque used to rock your rig is coming from your lug nut which will be under torqued.

Good OL LesSchwab is great for rattling the lugs up then hit the lugs with a torque wrench, the sad part is each lug is already over torqued since the torque wrench clicks at each lug with out lug movement.

One thing I would do different than you is I would loosen all nuts about 1/8-1/4 turn then properly torque to spec.

I agree after Les employers have done exactly what you said for several vechicles and then a brake job is needed however the next tire store has done the same. I have learned to do as you said go home and redo the job. Even ask for a much lower torque number so I can tighten instead of doing the complete job but that has not worked yet. I do not trust any tire store to do the right thing.

chevman

[fj12ryder]

WTP-GC wrote:
Reading this thread further validates that the internet has created more mis-placed worry in people than God ever intended. Just remember, in the daylight you will cast a shadow...and it's not going to hurt you.

The other side of the coin is that it has helped with the proliferation of mis-information about the smart thing to do too.

[Cummins12V98]

Durb wrote:
Sold torque wrenches for 30 years and have performed extensive training to industrial end users regarding the correct way to use a torque wrench. Once a wrench clicks it is now a breaker bar and can be used to over torque the lug nut. A major tire chain I know examined their installers' technique and found they were tightening the lug nuts up to 200 ft-lb over the spec. Torque sticks are ok for pre-torqueing fasteners but final torque should be done with a torque wrench. I can guarantee that almost all tires installed at a shop have over torqued fasteners due to poor technique.

When you get home, loosen each nut one at a time and re-torque. Pull slowly on the wrench (don't push) and when it clicks stop. Make sure you chock your tires, any torque used to rock your rig is coming from your lug nut which will be under torqued.

Good OL LesSchwab is great for rattling the lugs up then hit the lugs with a torque wrench, the sad part is each lug is already over torqued since the torque wrench clicks at each lug with out lug movement.

One thing I would do different than you is I would loosen all nuts about 1/8-1/4 turn then properly torque to spec.

[WTP-GC]

Reading this thread further validates that the internet has created more mis-placed worry in people than God ever intended. Just remember, in the daylight you will cast a shadow...and it's not going to hurt you.