Crack Down on 50 Amp Rigs Using 30 Amp Sites

[RobWNY]

I don't know how long this has been going on but I learned today that some RV parks including the Washington/Pittsbugh KOA I had booked has a policy that if your rig has 50 amp service, you can't use a 30 amp site. I wanted a 2 night stay later this month and all they had left was 30 amp sites. I booked one thinking no big deal. I'll just use my 50a to 30a reducing dogbone. I really don't have a need for 50 amps anyway in my rig. Turns out it's not allowed. In fairness, I didn't read the policy which is clearly stated on their website and they did offer to make an exception for us but with the caveat that if they felt we were using too much power, they would kick us out. Because we wouldn't have any idea what their idea of "Too much power" is, we cancelled. Is this becoming a thing now? Did I buy a 50a to 30a reducing dogbone for no reason?

[MrWizard]

i've never been in a CG where they had to come out {unlock the box?) to reset the breaker

the breakers have always been accessible
and i test the outlet, turn off breaker, plug in, turn on outlet

no sparks, no arcs, no damage to my plug or their outlet

[ependydad]

I read the first page and the last- no idea what it morphed to/from. But, I did see this sign last fall at a campground and it made me chuckle:

[MrWizard]

you do realize. he is talking about doing this, during the winter in Canada

and he might be the only one on that section of power loop in the CG

and there is NO way the CG operator could NOT see/know about those cords

[pianotuna]

Hi Rice,

It has nothing to do with generosity.

I rent a 50 amp site. I use a "break out box" that has a single 30 amp breaker and outlet on one leg, and two 20 amp breakers with outlets on the other leg. It means I have one cord going directly to the pedestal. The maximum draw on both legs would total 70 amps vs the 100 amps available (50 per leg). In fact my "draw" is less that 80% of the total available.

I'm quite possibly using less energy than other folks who are plugged into 50 amp sites with a 50 amp service in their RV.

The park in question is "the only game in town" for winter time use, and they charge two bucks for an 8 minute shower.

Rice wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Yes, 120 kwh per day is impossible in a 30 amp OEM (3600 x 24 = 86.4 kwh), but I have two additional auxiliary 20 amp shore power cords

I assume the owners of the RV park where you do this is okay with your running two extra shore power cords to get more electricity than the nominal 30 amps in your site. I think that's quite generous of them, and wouldn't expect the same at most RV parks.

[Rice]

pianotuna wrote:
Yes, 120 kwh per day is impossible in a 30 amp OEM (3600 x 24 = 86.4 kwh), but I have two additional auxiliary 20 amp shore power cords

I assume the owners of the RV park where you do this is okay with your running two extra shore power cords to get more electricity than the nominal 30 amps in your site. I think that's quite generous of them, and wouldn't expect the same at most RV parks.

[down_home]

KOA north of Ft Smith near I40 the Retire had put screws in one hole of the 50 amp plugs. He only had two premium sites, without the screws,50 amp site that you could wash your rig on. Place was in deplorable state and he thought he would save money on utilities that way or something.
He was on the phone bitching to another campground owner way up the road that a Truck stop and the Wal Martwas taking business away from them and some kind of plan to go to County, I suppose, commission and get RVs stopped from parking at the Wal Mart and the Truck Stop.
He was responsible for his own business failure.
Trying to force RVers to use his park and charging a lot for just 30 amp and even more for 50 amp. Grass was in terrible shape, and the one pad that was or use to be concrete, you could wash your RV on had brush and briars several feet high right next to it.
This must have been 2010-2013.

[myredracer]

bguy wrote:
Here's the concept for you.
Go to your electrical panel and note the size of the main breaker. A good many of you will find it's 200A. Now add up all the amperage of the breakers in the panel. You could get anywhere from 300 to 400 amps. How is that possible? It's all considered potential and the whole system is based on the premis that you will never have all the circuits loaded to their full capacity, but if you did the main will trip.
That's the issue with all the 50s on the 30A sites.

In the electrical world, that's termed "diversity". The issue isn't related to diversity, it's the way the Code determines load demand versus the number of sites on a pedestal and how it allows a feeder size to be substantially reduced for multiple sites on a feeder. And also how few 50 amp sites are required in a CG that results in more 50 amp RVs using 30 amp sites and drawing more power on 30 amp sites than 30 amp RVs would and than what the NEC addressed.

Most or all of us will never live long enough to see the NEC change enough to address the shortcomings or long enough to see new CGs built under any decently improved NEC rules. So unfortunately we all struggle to "survive" on grossly inadequate electrical systems in CGs.

OMG it's be so flippin' hot in OR & WA where we were just camping. In the 5 CGs we stayed in, voltage was moderate to excellent in all of them - and they were all older ones and one had upgraded at some point. It wasn't until we got back into Canada that I had to pull out the autoformer because the EMS tripped, pfffft.... :M

[toedtoes]

This is what you guys do so well. Great discussion about power and electricity. So much information and explanations. I've learned a lot from reading this and I thank you all. 🙂

[bguy]

Here's the concept for you.
Go to your electrical panel and note the size of the main breaker. A good many of you will find it's 200A. Now add up all the amperage of the breakers in the panel. You could get anywhere from 300 to 400 amps. How is that possible? It's all considered potential and the whole system is based on the premis that you will never have all the circuits loaded to their full capacity, but if you did the main will trip.
That's the issue with all the 50s on the 30A sites.

[Johno02]

Our rig has 50A service and a 50A cord witha 50A plug. I carry and use a 30>50 dogbone, and also a 50>30 dogbone also. also have a rarely used 15>30 adapter. And a bit of common sense. Over the years, I have used all of them at one time or another, sometimes two at the same time. Have never had power hookups checked or questioned. Just use what I need to, and don't do any advertising about it. Try not to abuse whatever is offered. If the only power is 30A fused and marked, then don't try to run everything in the rig at the same time. One air if needed, and not much more except lights. At our stick home, I have 200 Amp service, and do whatever I want to, but it is all mine and I am not abusing anybody elses needs.

[Rice]

I just noticed these in the site descriptions on the reservations site for the Jellystone in Nashville:

"A campsite suitable for up to larger trailers and motorhomes that are wired with 30-AMP Plugs and want access to sewer from the site."

and

"A campsite suitable for up to larger trailers and motorhomes that are wired with 50-AMP Plugs and want access to sewer from the site."

I've never noticed that kind of language before. I'd see references to "30-amp site," but not references to the wiring on the RV.

[Rice]

RobWNY wrote:
I don't know how long this has been going on but I learned today that some RV parks including the Washington/Pittsbugh KOA I had booked has a policy that if your rig has 50 amp service, you can't use a 30 amp site.

I had that happen to me in 2005. It was in the summer in Texas and the guy said it was because I wouldn't be able to use my air conditioner, and I said I do it all the time but he wouldn't budge.

Ralph Cramden wrote:
Until you happen upon the 40' 50 amp rig that has three AC / heat pumps, a convection microwave which is essentially an electric oven, 3 TVs and satellite recievers, a huge residential fridge ...

Actually, residential refrigerators use a LOT less electricity than absorption refrigerators when in electric mode. Over the course of 24 hours, a residential refrigerator will use about 1.5 kwh of electricity, while my four-door Norcold used about 7 kwh/day, and now with an Amish cooling unit, it's using more like 6 kwh/day. Residential refrigerators use only about 1/4 of that.

[DrewE]

Range Maggot Bob wrote:


All that may be fine, but what if you roll in a little late and all they have is 30amp hookups? Would they send you down the road instead of giving you a spot? Miss out on that revenue? Not good business sense if you ask me, but like you said- their campground, their rules.

It may be good business if your 50A rig would use a greater portion of the 30A available power than is left on the main loop, and a bunch of sites are plunged into darkness because the main breaker popped, and those people leave with a bad impression of the park.

Likewise, if some other camper who arrived before you with a 50A rig and was not very happy about having to pay extra for a 50A site realized that you, with your 50A rig, got a 30A site, they could understandably be quite disgruntled at that situation. Selective or arbitrary rule enforcement is a very quick way to make people unhappy, even more so than non-enforcement or strict enforcement.

[Range_Maggot_Bo]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
Each CG sets their OWN policy/rules/restrictions as they should be able to do.
Their monies invested...their risk on returns


And we as RVs can choose cause we have wheels. Yes/No to the rules.


Now if you are a 50A rig and want to use a 30A power receptacle the 'idea you would use too much power' is ridiculous
30A is only 3600W TOTAL
50A is 12,000W TOTAL

:H


We ran into that 'rule' in Washington State at a CG.
No adapters allowed
SO if you were 50A you had to use 50A and pay higher price
If 30A you had to use the 30A
Oh well it was their CG/business/rule so we stayed one night....cancelling the rest of our planned stay and went down the road to another CG

Such is life.......full of rules and one can choose.

All that may be fine, but what if you roll in a little late and all they have is 30amp hookups? Would they send you down the road instead of giving you a spot? Miss out on that revenue? Not good business sense if you ask me, but like you said- their campground, their rules.

[Lantley]

SoundGuy wrote:

Soundguy wrote:
That's old people speak for "I don't understand what's going on and I don't like it". Problem is, our parents and grandparents said exactly the same thing. 😄 As it affects your camping, if it bothers you so much you still have a choice - don't do it any more and save yourself the aggravation. Also simple. 🙂

gitane59 wrote:
Oh I understand what's going on and I don't like it. That's my prerogative. RV manufacturer's need to allocate a portion of there profit's to funding and promoting campground development.

Sure it's your prerogative, but it's also anyone else's to ignore you, which according to you is just what is happening. :W You're right - RV manufacturers don't care one whit where their product goes once it's shipped out to dealers, dealers don't care one whit once the product is sold and leaves their lot. I'm sure those operating publicly funded campgrounds care but they have no power at all to change it - got a complaint, talk to their political masters. Believe it, funding for public camping spaces is at the far low end of the totem pole when there are so many other issues feeding at the public trough. And of course there will always be NIMBY resistance from those who don't camp and therefore don't care whether you have a place to take your camper or not - which is the vast majority of the public. You're dreaming if you think this is going to change. :R

Campground development is all supply and demand. When the demand gets great enough the rates will increase enough to fund privatized development!
$80.00-$100.00 per night won't get it . The land is more valuable than that!
However as the squeeze continues the rates will increase enough to fund new private CG's.