Front up 1/2". Tons on bars. Bags help?

[gschindel]

Hi
I've been adjusting and readjusting a Reese dual cam to work with a ram 1500 and a 30' bullet.

This is as close as I can get:
On the 6th link - as far as I can go:
Front of truck moves up 1/2"
Back goes down 1 11/16"
Trailer goes up 1/2"

I have the ball tilted back as far as it will go and the hitch as far down on the shank as possible (before I thought I needed to raise the hitch up and was putting weight on the front but I was looking at something way wrong before and am now measuring from the bumper which is much more accurate)

If I back off to the 5th link the front goes up a full 1".

Have I taken too much weight off the front?

Have I put too much on the bars? They are 1000lbs but they now creak and pop like the devil and I need the jack to get them up.

Would bags help?

It seems to drive ok, except for the noise, and is likely better off than when I used a Durango, but now that I know I've taken weight off the front I'm a bit paranoid.

Thanks for the help.

[myredracer]

I guess you are enroute to Seattle by now and hope you don't have any issues or incidents related to the WDH.

The first thing that is mandatory is a good read of the sticky in this forum on how to set up a WDH which includes excellent info. on setting up a dual cam hitch. Once you have a handle on what to do, it's not particularly difficult to set up a dual cam and get it dialed in. It needs some patience though. Once dialed in, these WDHs are amazing.

You are guesstimating on the tongue weight and could be okay or not. It's very doubtful you need bars rated over 1,000 lbs. You may need 800 lb bars if anything. With your TT and 1,000 lb bars, you *should* have no trouble in transferring adequate back onto the steer axle. Guesstimating the TW is not a good idea, not only for the bar rating, but for the payload capacity of the TV. Also, over-sizing spring bars can damage a frame in some cases.

You can't go by the dry tongue weight, period and it's best to est. by using GVWR. GVWR of the TT is 7590 lbs and the TW should not be over 15%, or 1138 lbs at the upper range of the normal TW %. Even up that high, 1000 lb bars should be okay. TW is more likely to be 12-13%, and at 13% would be 987 lbs, so 1K bars look okay. If you have a forward FW tank and tow with it full, that can raise TW significantly (an exterior photo seems to indicate a forward tank).

You seem to have something wrong with the number of links under tension. Ensure that you have studied the dual cam setup info, available on this forum in detail. Getting the head/bar angle correct is very important.

What is the payload capacity rating of the Ram 1500? If inadequate, no amount of adjusting or installation of air bags will make things work out. What you need to do is load up the truck as you would have for camping, along with family and pets and go weigh the truck and subtract that from the door pillar GVWR rating. If you've added say 1K lbs of total payload and the trailer has a TW of 1K lbs, you could be well over-loaded.

Towing overloaded and on top of that, not having the WDH adjusted correctly can be very unsafe.

[gschindel]

I heard you match bars to tongue weight?? I know my tongue weight is way under 1000lbs. They don't flex up so I'm not sure how heavier would help give me more chain links to play with.

[gschindel]

Thanks. I already have the ball tilted back as far as it will go. It just seems like having more links under tension would keep the bars and hangers from binding up and would give me room to put even more tension on them if needed.

[Fabguy]

I don't think 1/2" is bad at all. Try dropping all of the tongue weight on the ball without using the spring bars and measure how much lift you get!

I'm thinking you would be better off checking the hitch head angle and adjust as necessary to get more spring bar tension if it's really bothering you that much.

[Terryallan]

gschindel wrote:
Does seem to drive ok

Wouldn't bags decease the amount of force I need to put on the bars? To me it seems that "lifting" the back a bit with bags would put more weight back on the front??


I can't find anything from dodge saying about what the front should go back to.

No bags will NOT return lost weight to the front. they will only raise the rear. The front will still be light. In fact the bags will remove tension from the bars allowing the front to rise even more.

I'm betting the fact that you transferred 1/2 of the lost weight back to the front. will be all you need. If the truck, and TT drives well, and there is NO sway. You have accomplished your goal. If you still have sway. Keep working at it.

Since you seem to have got it right. Now add sway control. sway control is form those times when you induce sway by doing a emergency maneuver to doge something in the road, or similar situation.

[gschindel]

I don't know if heavier bars would help. Mine are 1000lb and don't flex up even with all the load I have on them - I'm sure my tongue is way under 1000. Heavier wouldn't give me more links to play with - would they?

I'm sure the 1/2 ton is doing way better than the Durango ever did - I'm sure a 3/4 would be that much better but I couldn't justify the higher initial purchase price or the increased cost to operate.

What I have isn't perfect but I think it will be fine - life is a compromise.

[campigloo]

Sounds like your bars are too light? Are 1400# bars available? Is a 3/4 ton truck doable?

[gschindel]

Sorry - guess I don't know how to post a pic.

[gschindel]

So this is how I ended up: (pic of it with 2 links under tension in the next post)

I put in 1000lb Air Lift Air Bags. Easy enough to install, cheap at $140. Video showing the idea to strap the bags after you compress them so they slip into the spring was genius.

With Nothing attached I get: Trailer at 21", Back of truck at 18 1/16 and Front at 26 1/2

With trailer on but No air pressure and No bars I get: Trailer at 17 3/4, Back at 13 7/8 and Front at 28 1/8

I pumped up the bags to their max of 30 lbs and got (no bars yet): Trailer 18, Back 14 1/8 and Front 28 1/4

Hooked up the bars so I had two full links under tension: Trialer 20 1/2, Back 15 3/4 and Front 27 1/8. Took it for a short drive. Front seemed to float around, not lots of traction when turning.

Hooked up the bars so I had only 1 full link under tension: Trailer 21 1/2, Back 16 5/8, Front 26 7/8. Drove it 1/2 an hour down the road on a fairly crappy secondary highway. Did well, could easily do 120 Km/hr with no sway or rock. Hitched moaned and groaned what seemed to be the usual amount. Too bad there wasn't a bit of a wind to try it even a better test.

The measurements with the 1 full link under tension and 30 lbs in the bags are very similar to what I got yesterday without the bags. The measurements in {} are what I measured today - I parked in a different spot. Trailer 20 1/4 {20 1/2}, Back 15 1/4 {15 5/8} and Front 27 1/4 but yesterday I wasn't able to snipe up the bars to this and needed the jack - with adding the bags I was able to snipe up the bars - not easily though.

My opinion on air bags with a ram 1500 with the coil springs is a strong yes. It makes sense to me to beef up the rear springs to what a 1/2 ton used to be like. Ram has them set to maximize ride not to tow with. The amount that they helped get more weight onto the front of the truck and lessen the force on the tension bars was slight but enough to make me happy I spent the morning and $140. I would also think that they would certainly help to keep any roll out of the back of the truck. Didn't affect the smoothness of the ride with the trailer hooked up either. I'm a definite believer.

I still don't like having the bars so tight up against the trailer frame but I have run out of ideas how to get the same tension on the bars with more links to play with. I have the ball tilted back as far as it can go. Would getting a shank that lets the ball drop even further help? I would appreciate it much if someone has any ideas.

Thanks much to everyone for all your assistance.

Off to Seattle I go!

[gschindel]

I did some looking and found an interesting discussion here

http://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f12/air-bags-on-ram-1500-a-72696.html

I'm fairly convinced that air bags are worth a try. Am very happy though to hear experience that says Yay or Nay.

Thanks.

[gschindel]

Hi
Sorry I wish I did have real weights and I unfortunately didn't take a pic when it was hooked up. I don't think though the pic would show much - except that you would see the bars close to the frame as I only have one link free - one full link under tension in addition to the two on either end that are attached to the hitch parts.

The trailer is a bullet 281BHS. The shipping weight is 5180 and the hitch is 510. I'd say we have it loaded up average - not sure what this equals to in real weights but still seems doable for a half ton - pulled with the Durango for the last couple of years through the mountains with no issues.

The bars are round and are 1000lbs. It looks like Reese makes 1200lb ones now.

I've used the hitch for 6 years on two trailers and it always made some noise but I've never had this much force on it before - I used to use it with two full links under tension - I can't imagine it was designed to have more force on it than you would be able to lift up with a snipe - I need to use the jack on the trailer.

I'm not real thrilled about the thought of driving it with likely too much force on the bars or if I back off the bars possibly too little weight on the steering. Neither sounds good. I guess I was likely in ignorant bliss when I used the Durango but now that I know better....

Thanks for the help.

[Need-A-Vacation]

As mentioned, post some weights up if possible.

If you can't, what model bullet do you have? Do you pack heavy, front pass through loaded???

Without actual weights for your set up we can only speculate.

My initial thought would be you need higher rated bars. But, it's hard to say for sure.

Also, it seems easier to state how many chains links are under tension (between the bar and bracket) since the total number of chain links can vary, instead of the loose extra links which it seems like you posted.

The popping and creaking is normal for a DC (Dual Cam) system as is needing to jack the trailer up to "latch" the bars up.

Do you have a round bar or trunnion system?

[myredracer]

This is where a photo would help if you can. Also what is the actual tongue weight and some info. on the TT might help.

[gschindel]

Does seem to drive ok. Front seems to steer and track well but until I'm in an emergency situation who really knows.

I'd be happier with the bars if I could slack them off a bit but that would take more weight off the front.

Wouldn't bags decease the amount of force I need to put on the bars? To me it seems that "lifting" the back a bit with bags would put more weight back on the front??

These supposedly slip into the spring space and are rated at 1000lb - http://m.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/air-lift-air-ride-rear-0225900p.html

They wouldn't help at all?


I can't find anything from dodge saying about what the front should go back to.