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Front wheels locked

egh33
Explorer
Explorer
Yesterday I was towing my Jeep Wrangler (4 wheel drive standard) behind the Motor Home Same as I have done for 12 years. And the front
wheels locked tight, before I could get stopped & off the road way it had skidded the tires all the way to the rims. I had the Jeep transmission in 2nd gear and the transfer case in neutral just as the book says to do. The dealer had no idea what may have caused it. Any else ever had this problem??
22 REPLIES 22

egh33
Explorer
Explorer
Ok, Here is what the garage said caused the wheels to lock.
The differential was completely dry, no lubrication at all.
I understand it ruined almost the complete differential. So far about $2700.00 for repairs.
Bad part is I had a complete oil change a lube just before I left on the trip.
and informed the lube man to check the front differential as it may need some fluid.

egh33
Explorer
Explorer
travisc wrote:
Drop the front drive line and see what it does


I myself am not going to do any thing. the jeep is in the dealers shop about 3 hours drive from here. They are going to check it out as soon as they get new tires & wheels so they can get it on a rack.
I just told them to figure it out, and fix it.

j-d
Explorer II
Explorer II
The CV failure account sounds like the one I heard about here. Title was something like "Transfer Case Exploded."
I wonder what he's towing the Jeep with. I left our Toyota Tercel manual shift in gear once and felt it as soon as the Class C started to move.
He says the Jeep seems normal right now. The car that the scenario I described happening to me was a 10-year-old 1980 Corolla. Rear Drive, Front Disc/Rear Drum, Manual Shift, probably 125,000 miles. It drove fine "cold", either in the neighborhood or on the highway for the first dozen miles or so. When it cooled, it drove OK again. As hot as those brakes got, I don't think I replaced the pads or calipers, at least right away based on the brake-apply problem. The flex hoses, especially the front ones, can collapse internally and cause a caliper to drag, but I don't see the odds of BOTH failing and locking BOTH wheels at the SAME time. As I said above, I can see a caliper problem contributing to the fluid getting hot and applying both brakes IF the fluid can't escape back into the master.
In MY case the master had a fluid restriction. I HAVE seen mis-installed masters where the Booster pin went too far in, and I HAVE seen binding Brake Pedal Linkage. Anything keeping the master cylinder piston from going all the way back to the snap ring that holds the piston in.
If that Break Away is really connected to the Parking Brake, well... OK... but most of the parking brakes I've seen are about as effective at stopping a moving vehicle as dragging your foot.
If Break Away cable is in any way connected to the Pedal or the Front Brakes, it'd be a prime suspect. It doesn't have to lock them, only heat them up and block the fluid return to the master. At that point events would take care of themselves and apply the brakes like what happened here.
If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

travisc
Explorer
Explorer
Drop the front drive line and see what it does
Winnebago Access 24V

Jagtech
Explorer
Explorer
bshpilot wrote:
Jagtech wrote:
Sounds like your transfer case grenaded, caused by a failed CV joint. $$$$


if the transfer case or a cv joint grenades enough to lock up the front wheels he wouldnt be able to drive it afterwards (as he's said he's done).


This actually happened to one of our friends. Transfer case actually exploded, causing the front wheels to lock up intil it got stopped. Later, it would move in rear wheel drive only. He said the CV joint was squeeking before it happened, and neglected to do anything about it. This may not be the OP's case, tho/....
1998 Triple E F53
1995 Jeep Wrangler toad

bshpilot
Explorer
Explorer
BTW - a tire pressure & temperature monitoring system (like the TST) would alert the coach driver to tire temps that were increasing (during skidding). I don't know how long the jeep was pulled it w/ flat tires but the TST system would have also alarmed when the tires started to drop air pressure.
Don R.
'04 42' Haulmark Motor Coach - 450hp/1650tq / 12 spd SmartShift
'12 Jeep Wrangler Sport (manual trans)
'17 Platinum F350 (6.7L, SRW, CC, Long bed, 4x4)

bshpilot
Explorer
Explorer
Jagtech wrote:
Sounds like your transfer case grenaded, caused by a failed CV joint. $$$$


if the transfer case or a cv joint grenades enough to lock up the front wheels he wouldnt be able to drive it afterwards (as he's said he's done).
Don R.
'04 42' Haulmark Motor Coach - 450hp/1650tq / 12 spd SmartShift
'12 Jeep Wrangler Sport (manual trans)
'17 Platinum F350 (6.7L, SRW, CC, Long bed, 4x4)

Jagtech
Explorer
Explorer
Sounds like your transfer case grenaded, caused by a failed CV joint. $$$$
1998 Triple E F53
1995 Jeep Wrangler toad

bshpilot
Explorer
Explorer
Off Pavement wrote:
There was a fellow on here about year ago that claimed his toad would lock up the wheels in a turned condition on a "specific corner" he lived near if I remember correctly. I've never heard of the problem before or since, but it sounds possible you have discovered a similar issue. There was quite a discussion, but never a resolution...

Here is a link to the previous post about "Dragging A Jeep Unlimited Around Corners".


it looks like that guy was traveling w/ the KEY in the ON position & in the ignition.
jeeps build after 2010 (and some '09s) do not have a steering wheel lock and therefore don't require the key-on to disable the steering wheel lock.

it doesnt sound like the OP in this thread is putting the key in the ignition.
Don R.
'04 42' Haulmark Motor Coach - 450hp/1650tq / 12 spd SmartShift
'12 Jeep Wrangler Sport (manual trans)
'17 Platinum F350 (6.7L, SRW, CC, Long bed, 4x4)

Off_Pavement
Explorer II
Explorer II
There was a fellow on here about year ago that claimed his toad would lock up the wheels in a turned condition on a "specific corner" he lived near if I remember correctly. I've never heard of the problem before or since, but it sounds possible you have discovered a similar issue. There was quite a discussion, but never a resolution...

Here is a link to the previous post about "Dragging A Jeep Unlimited Around Corners".
The Road To Paradise Is NOT Paved!
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Brian Hoag
www.rv-camping.org
'10 Sunseeker Class C - Gozer II
'13 Jeep JKU (Wrangler) - Billie

bshpilot
Explorer
Explorer
egh33 wrote:
The brake away cable is attached to the emergency brake. It was fine.


I've never heard of a brake away system connected to the emergency parking brake (rear brakes only).

how is the break away connected to the emergency brake ?
most brake away systems connect to the brake pedal (all 4 brakes).

what the transmission traveling in gear or neutral ?
Don R.
'04 42' Haulmark Motor Coach - 450hp/1650tq / 12 spd SmartShift
'12 Jeep Wrangler Sport (manual trans)
'17 Platinum F350 (6.7L, SRW, CC, Long bed, 4x4)

egh33
Explorer
Explorer
bshpilot wrote:
egh33 -

do you use a supplemental braking system (i.e. brake buddy) or a break away brake system ?
did the toad braking system activate ?

did the transfer case selector slip into gear ?

No, I do not use a supplemental braking system of any kind. The brake away cable is attached to the emergency brake. It was fine.
The transfer shift was still in neutral.

j-d
Explorer II
Explorer II
You're saying no supplemental brake was installed, and you're saying the Jeep is "normal" now? Correct on both points?
I've heard of Jeep transfer cases disintegrating. I believe it was a result of problems with the front driveshaft. Maybe something in the transfer case itself. But again, you're saying the drivetrain is just fine, confirmed by Dealer, right? I want to be sure about this because I've had disc brakes "self apply" because of a clogged passage in the Master Cylinder. First, diagram of Master Cylinder:

Think of braking as a Handshake. We shake and then fully release each others' hand. Anybody can see we are no longer connected. That's the old Drum Brakes that had return springs. Springs forced fluid back to the master. Now consider another handshake. We join hands, squeeze cordially, but then just relax our grips. Still connected, bystander can't tell if we're locked in or not. That's DISK brakes. Without positive return force (springs like drums have) the fluid has to just bleed back to the master once pedal pressure is released.
Now the diagram: Look just to the Right of the two "Circuit Rear Seals" the ones just to the Left of the Springs, not the one between the Circuits that does not have a Spring by it. There is the "Fluid Intake and RETURN Port" for the front and rear brake portions of the master. Notice that the Ports are Forward of the Seals. They are very small holes that allow pressure to release, back into the Fluid Reservoir part of the Master.
OK, my Scenario: Intake/Return Port Clogged. Under even normal driving, towing in your case, that partial contact between Pads and Rotor (remember the relaxed handshake) heated up the Caliper and the Fluid. Maybe a Caliper was sticking a little but doesn't have to for this to happen. Heated Fluid expands. Can't get back to Master. Applies itself AND the other front brake as well. Part of same hydraulic circuit. Applied brakes get hotter. Fluid expands more, brakes apply harder. Hotter, Expands, finally Locks the Brakes.
Check the Master Cylinder AND the adjustment of the Rod between the Booster and the Master. There should be a little clearance (dealer should have the spec) before Booster moves Piston in Master. Check too for a binding Brake Pedal Pivot or Linkage.
Anything that doesn't allow RETURN flow can cause this. The Piston has to be all the way back or it'll act like the ports are plugged.
I had this happen. First time it slowed me down. Like the engine was losing power. Didn't realize it was brakes. No side pull since both were applied. Next time it stopped me. When I got out, BOTH front brakes were hot. Like a pair of BBQ grills. I could drive it home once it cooled. In retrospect I could have cracked either bleeder or the line back to the master. Took the master apart twice before I saw a little odd "spot" in the bore I had honed out. Checked from the top and corresponding "spot" which was aluminum corrosion, stiff enough I had to use a little "number drill" to clear it. No problem after.
The key here is that BOTH wheels were affected. If it's a Caliper only, one will get bad first.
Check it out.
If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

bshpilot
Explorer
Explorer
egh33 -

do you use a supplemental braking system (i.e. brake buddy) or a break away brake system ?
did the toad braking system activate ?

did the transfer case selector slip into gear ?
Don R.
'04 42' Haulmark Motor Coach - 450hp/1650tq / 12 spd SmartShift
'12 Jeep Wrangler Sport (manual trans)
'17 Platinum F350 (6.7L, SRW, CC, Long bed, 4x4)