Looks like we might give up the RV Lifestyle (gasp!)

[Crowe]

We sold our Endura close to two years ago. While we have missed some aspects of RVing, as time goes by we miss it less and less. As we were driving home from the Boston RV show we kind of had an epiphany. For what we would spend on the set-up we want, we are starting to hit the bottom end of what we can get a cottage on a lake for. So we started analyzing all the bits and pieces, mostly dogs, time factor, and where we live. We did take our dogs with us on a number of occasions, but we are explorers. It's not unusual for us to leave at 9 a.m and return at 9 p.m. That's not fair to the dogs Fortunately we have a great doggie hotel they love and that loves them. We don't want to take them where it's really hot because being "yankee" dogs they don't deal well in the heat. More of an issue is where we live and our inability to get more than a week or two at a time off of our jobs. We can only get so far in that short time frame. Driving the eastern seaboard can also leave one with VERY frazzled nerves, and we've discovered the 2 day drive back from somewhere in the Carolinas or Kentucky/Tennessee often leaves us feeling like we were never on vacation. Last Saturday we took the day and scouted cottages along a number of lakes about 2.5 hours from the house. The thought of being able to just hop in the truck with the dogs and some clothes without the hassles of hooking up, finding strange places, etc., is becoming more appealing, at least for now. The Springfield RV show is in a few weeks and we'll probably make the trek out there anyway but my gut feel is our RVing days are at least temporarily done. All subject to change of course!

[larry_barnhart]

We had a lake cabin and decided to sell and rv. Lake cabins are always work but still it was nice for years to go for weekends.
chevman

[travelnutz]

colliehauler,

"Just wondering where you can get a lake house for 100K? Where my seasonal is at the cheepest Fixer uper is 300K. The cheepest empty lot was 160K."

Isn't that the truth! Bare lakefront property along Lake Michigan (if you can even find some in the area you want to be) is going for $10,000 to $30,000 per front foot of land on the lake and you must have over 100 feet min to get a building permit to build anything on it. It's not flat land either but rolling and with sanddunes most places starting at as little as 50' from the water's edge and you have to be at least 200' back from the highwater line and/or behind the first foredune. A very good thing is NO rock, just gorgeous pure soft sand. A million dollars spent is min to even want to build anything on and more if there's a home or cottage on it.

Then to rub salt, the codes make building anything on the beach/dunes take a long time to get a permit if they will even allow you to level an area of a sanddune to build on. Buying an existing home or cottage (no cabins allowed)requires it to be brought up to present building codes first and with many it can't be done or first, they have to be moved back the required min distance from the water and at the min height above the max high water level.

The Great Lakes do NOT have any tides like the oceans have as the water levels only change a few feet from highs to lows over many years of having more or less annual precipitation.

The Great Lakes shoreline isn't the only place the land is extremely expensive. Most decent inland lakes shorelines also and there's over 11,000 inland lakes in Michigan. Many thousands of miles of inland lakes shorelines! Same for rivers here also and especially if they are navigable to one of the Great Lakes. Most places. 2 or 3 cabins and cottages and the land areas are bought and being torn down and and a new home etc is built that meets building codes and the setback etc codes. Very hard to find any cottages or cabins on the water that can be sold as is today unless it's in very good repair and meets the codes and is given an occupancy permit. BTW, that also includes the road or driveway to the structure must be up to snuff also including all utilities! Even $300,000 won't get you and simplest of places on the water that will pass muster so you could live in/occupy.

All of this above kind of tells you why there's not going to me more CG's on lakeshores of the Great Lakes, inland lakes, and connecting rivers to the Great Lakes. Hoffmaster State Park between Grand Haven and Muskegon is about 1200 acres of prime land and gorgeous high dunes and has 2-1/2 miles of pristene pure sand beach with clean fresh NO SALT potable water with a pure sand gradually sloping bottom and tens of billions of dollars couldn't buy it if it were even for sale. However, for $27 to $29 per night with and RV or even a tent, it's yours and your entire family to enjoy ALL of it 24 hours a day. Heck, it includes all the electric you could need (50 amps) and 3 very clean new modern bath houses with all the hot water you desire even for an hour long shower if you want. They even accept all your garbage, gray, and black water and give you all the very clean pure fresh water you ever could use and there's never a bill in the mail for utilities or services or property taxes on your ten of billions of dallars vacation heaven and no yard work ever or other expenses for the property maintenance at all and then they welcome you back as many times as you desire year after year.

Same for Grand Haven State Park and CG with it's nearly a mile long public beach rated in the top 5 beaches in the USA. The new bath house is state of the art and your living accomodation is RIGHT on the beach and more free activities and venues than you could even dream of doing during any one of your stays and it comes with a free spectacular sunset right in front of you each night. The quarter mile long wide pier with it's 2 lighthouses is totally public and a favorite for countless thousands each year and at the end out into Lake Michigan is where the 7 mile long boardwalk begins. Launching ramps and extensive boating is/are everywhere and simply mind boggling as is the fishing and NO SALT! A very long boardwalk with restrooms, backed benches, food, scenery galore, to downtown, more parks, marinas, outdoor dining if desired, etc with so much to do (.7 miles - 7 blocks) along the harbor with boats and ships coming and going thru beautiful grassy park after park and if desired continue on for another 6 miles of paved walkways along the river. Also another over 160 miles of paved maintained bike paths including starting right from your RV's etc door.

Your total cost for the ENTIRE family is a whopping about $30/day and no bills coming later for your staying adventure other than what items you elect to purchase by yourselves. No wonder there's over 2 million a year that go to the GH State Park alone and more than 6 million visit the area each year and there's room for all! It a way of life for over a century in the area and they know how to make it fun for everyone!

Same for Holland State Park and some other Michigan State Parks also.

Enjoy extremely expensive land uses along Lake Michigan and West Michigan and rub noses in areas you could only dream of owning even a square inch of and do it as often and as long as your schedule permits and it's unbelievably cheap to do with an RV. In Grand Haven, of course if you desire, you can book one of the over a hundred rental homes etc for a week or two but it's much more than $30/day. Even in one of the many bed and breakfast places and you'll have a choice of any of the more than 80 local places to dine at, indoors or outdoors and/or many on the lake or the river.

We've lived there for 72 years and know exactly what it's like and wouldn't move away for 10 million dollars tax free! The constant vibrant growth in population in West Michigan says many others have found out too!

I/we do NOT work for anything, anyone, a business, a travel concern, or the city/area in any way. Long retired and we simply live there an know! Don't have to own to enjoy the area alone or with a large family without decimating your wallet or having ownership bills coming in year after year and they don't get lower with time!

[colliehauler]

wbwood wrote:
Crowe, I can wholeheartedly understand where you are coming from. I know there are many that will boast that they would never do that sort of thing or that they would never stay in a hotel or whatever. But honestly, what you mentioned is very true. Economically, it's not the best way of doing things. You can buy a $100,000 RV set up and if you are lucky, in 20 years when it's paid off, it will not be worth very much at all. But you can a cottage for $100,000 and in 20 years, it will be worth at least what you paid for it, hopefully more. The ease of going to a place you know where everything is already there and set up also saves you money. You are also more likely to use it with it being closer to you than you would try to make those long trips once or twice a year on a short timeframe. And if you want to see something else that is further away, you can always drive there or fly.

Good luck!

Just wondering where you can get a lake house for 100K? Where my seasonal is at the cheepest Fixer uper is 300K. The cheepest empty lot was 160K.

[wbwood]

Crowe, I can wholeheartedly understand where you are coming from. I know there are many that will boast that they would never do that sort of thing or that they would never stay in a hotel or whatever. But honestly, what you mentioned is very true. Economically, it's not the best way of doing things. You can buy a $100,000 RV set up and if you are lucky, in 20 years when it's paid off, it will not be worth very much at all. But you can a cottage for $100,000 and in 20 years, it will be worth at least what you paid for it, hopefully more. The ease of going to a place you know where everything is already there and set up also saves you money. You are also more likely to use it with it being closer to you than you would try to make those long trips once or twice a year on a short timeframe. And if you want to see something else that is further away, you can always drive there or fly.

Good luck!

[Crowe]

A vacant cabin/home/etc is usually a much better target for thieves

Agreed which is why we are including a year-round home in our search. There are many pieces of property available in residential neighborhoods that happen to be on a lake. And there are alarm systems. The majority, if not all, of the lakes in the region we are looking have lake associations and one of their tasks is security in the off-season. Many of the roads don't get plowed, either, which is at least a bit of a deterrent.

Cloud Dancer that looks like Heaven, especially since right now it's about 10 degrees out! Not near enough open space in this part of the country. Hmmm, maybe I should revisit my thread about moving to a warmer part of the country...

[Cloud_Dancer]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. All I want to do is show what we found to be OUR way of having our little shoreline house, where I can launch our bassboat right there on the gravel bar with my 4x4 GMC Envoy. Other lake locations that we go to have launch ramp.
Back at our base is where I do all the maintenance and repairs on the motorhome and the other vehicles. In over 10 years, on the road, my motorhome has never needed anything but diesel fuel.
IMO we get to enjoy the best of both worlds.

This is an example of one one place we enjoy:

[travelnutz]

Crowe,

Been there done that for so many years so I'm NOT talking hypotheticals. Just trying to share what I know to be facts as we'd experienced them with a place for 19 years in Florida and for over 33 years, a place/places in Northern Michigan. Please understand that I don't give 2 hoots if you RV or buy and cabin/home/etc. It's your life! I makes not one inkling of difference to me in any way. Life simply goes on 24 hours each day!

A vacant cabin/home/etc is usually a much better target for thieves for any reason than an RV in a park with park security and surrounded by other RV's which of course some will be occupied which means EYES! Yes, crime is much higher in the Northeast and some other areas of the country than others. Why do thieves rob banks? Because they know what's inside and that's a given. Usually much more to take from a stick built residence especially if nobodies home than an RV anyway. My Bro being a Sheriff for many years before he retired could burst your bubble of it will happen everywhere the same way!

In all these years we've have never had anything stolen or broken into, BUT, we have always had people/neighbors/patrols watching closely as they usually lived very close or next to our place or in the same structure as in a condo setting. A very big difference.

Have fun with your decision...

As for being on the water, both can have that going for them and having a launching ramp for a boat is much more likely in an established RV park on the water. Much depends on if the place of consideration is on an inland lake, a navigable river, or the ocean or bay.

[Crowe]

Whoa, travelnutz, that was quite an outpouring! 🙂 RVs can be broken into, items stolen, things broken, etc., as can a regular home, a cabin or your car. Risk is in every step you take. None of what you mentioned is any different than what can be encountered in a regular neighborhood.

What I failed to mention is this would still allow us to travel by air (another thing we don't mind) for at least a week a year. Like RVing, cabin/cottage ownership and air travel are not mutually exclusive. Doesn't have to be one or the other. If the cottage sits a week or two a year plus some weekends, that doesn't bother us. Sold the Endura because it did NOTHING but sit in the driveway. Yes, we could use the money we'd invest in the house to constantly travel by air but don't want to board the dogs constantly. We THINK (and again, there's still a good chance we could be proven wrong) we REALLY need a place we can get to fairly quickly and easily to just chill. Haven't done it yet and the RV was causing more stress that we realized, so we'll see. Still a ways off from a decision. If my darn stupid kid wasn't so smart and heading straight to grad school we'd have the down payment AND the mortgage payments already available. We're only 53 so God willing we still have some time.

Loving all of this. I'm surprised I haven't gotten "your world is going to end if you don't RV!". The support and relayed experiences are really appreciated. Lots of pitfalls either way. It's called life.

A seasonal site has crossed our mind as well. Biggest concern is rules changes that we have no control over, i.e. dogs are OK this year but then they say know. Biggest thing is we want to be right on the water so we can launch from our back yard. Not sure we'll find that in a seasonal.

[colliehauler]

I did the seasonal site as well. The cost is a fraction of what it would cost to own a cabin. I write one check a year for water, sewer, electric, property tax, trash, security, and boat dock. All I have to do is show up with the Collies and maintain the trailer. The owner let me put up a vynil fence for the Collies as well. As Travelnutz said, good luck with whatever you decide.

[travelnutz]

Crowe,

Life's desires usually change with age, jobs, kids, new ventures wanted, or family economic changes, or changes in the area/region lived in, etc. Some refer to the life's desires as "phases". Have to do what makes you happy or allows you to enjoy the phase you're in. We were very fortunate as we had both vacation accomodation structures and RV's to enjoy and add in the cabined powerboats and sailboats and it gave us so many choices.

Our home along Lake Michigan in West Michigan, a winter vacation home in Florida and one in Northern Michigan that we planned on just driving a vehicle to or flying to the one in Florida. Got to hate flying as we both had done it so much and it didn't happen because we drove one of the RV's, usually the truck camper, with our trail motorcycles or snowmobiles or boat on a trailer behind. So we bought a boat to keep at each location and had a storage garage built to keep the boat and either the trailbikes or the snowmobiles per the season in so we didn't have to haul them. However, we'd still take the truck camper so we could do overnight or a few days adventure/explorations so we really gained NOTHING.

The kids grew up with this type of life and loved it but then, of course, got married and out popped their kids so they we very busy working etc and we'd take the Gkids up north with us sometimes so they could experience what their parent had and they loved it too. However, the constant work of keeping up the places everytime we went to them was all on our aging shoulders then and my wife had serious back and neck issues. Guess who was left to do the work almost from the time we arrived till we went back home? Add in the property taxes and insurance on 3 lotacions and the maintenance cost of weekly yard work in the Florida place as the grass and weeds grow like crazy in the spring, summer, and fall down there.

Very expensive and for what? Using it in part of the winter as nobody in their right mind would want to be in the extreme heat and humidity in the hot months! Mold and bugs was always a problem too so bi-monthly spraying was required and being unoccupied, the insurance rates skyrocketed as has everything else in Florida. The sun, mold, and heat took it's toll on the Florida boat and took it back north to totally refurbish and sell and sold the property in 2007 and just in time before the real estate/home/condo market values dropped more than in half. Whew, dodged a huge bullet!

Still have 2 of the 4 places we had in Northern Michigan but seldom go to them as is simply RV'ing for us now to both Florida, Northern Michigan, the U.P., Canada, Alaska again, and you name it. The condo's and vacation homes don't move to anywhere different as they are on foundations and taxed and require insurance and maintenance etc whether we even go to them or not.

Crowe, we basically did just the opposite in sequence of what you are talking about. Worked for us but never would have if we'd reversed the sequense! It will amaze you how much it really costs per year to have a cabin/vacation home in real dollars. You are in an area that gets really cold and water lines freeze and break among so many other liquid things such as canned goods etc. So take all liquids home and drian/blowout the lines after every stay or leave the place heated and that's sure not cheap. Maintain the yard and clear snow? How about security and it being broken into when not there and ransacked or the good things inside stolen? TV, Range, microwave, small appliances, you name it and they now have it! You may find some of your stuff at a pawn shop and never know who bought their drugs with your help! Don't forget about septic system repairs/pumping or other utility costs. Taxes and insurance plus property regulations are only going to increase in the future as is maintenance costs.

Not trying to convince you one way or the other as that's your decision alone. Just pointing out some things to consider.

If you don't care to pull or drive an RV simply putting an appropriate RV on a seasonal site of your choice or at a different location each year so you can enjoy a variety of experiences eliminates most of the security and fixed cabin/home/getaway issues and you'll pay the known seasonal costs only once. Then you can drive any vehicle to where it is day or night and not have to fight traffic with an RV rig. Once you pay the seasonal or yearly cost, you have the right to leave with your RV anytime or at the end of your paid period and it's blessing if you don't like your neighbors or what's happening in the area that affects the resale value or tax bonds passed. Controlled costs and cheap insurance with an RV and no fixed home issues and no lingering surprises. RV's lose value with age with is a fraction of the investment of a non-motorized RV. Real estate on the other hand is a very large investment with high ownership ongoing costs but can increase in value or decrease in value and you have so very little to to with which will be the outcome!

Wishing you "good luck" with whatever choices you make!!!

[bikendan]

the DW and I would hate being at the same one place, year after year.

to us, RV's have wheels for a reason, to move!
that's also why we would never have a seasonal site.

for us, we need to keep moving and finding new places to explore and meeting new people, whether it's a trip out of the country or in our own country.

[Crowe]

You don't have to convince us.

Not trying to convince anyone, me included. I was just musing on a cold winter's night.

Lastly, when you buy an RV you expect to take a bath when you sell it

One of the reasons we are thinking of a cabin. Real estate markets have ups and downs but the chances of a house appreciating are at least there, unlike an RV where you know it's a downhill slide. With the still-depressed market around the lakes, we should be able to buy low enough (some of the property has been for sale for around a year) to recoup our investment. However, just like RVing, it's for the joy and instrinsic rewards you get out of a cabin, not cost savings or investment. We don't mind the house maintenance and we've found a few properties that are almost brand new. And my house won't leave me stranded on the Beltway outside Baltimore like the Endura did! There's not much for work in that area and even though it's only about 45 minutes outside Portland, it's still a slow economy there. Who knows-we may change our minds a year after we do this.

Thanks for letting me ramble. Enjoying everyone's comments and insights.

[Cloud_Dancer]

I started RVing many years ago. I'm on my 6th, and final, motorhome.
Early on, I found out that the maintenance/repairs on the motorhome, for me, was a breeze compared to the work that had to be done on the cabin (at the lake). I briefly owned a "cabin" at Elephant Butte NM, but most of the time I was there was taken working on the dern thing.
Yes, we still RV (fulltiming only lasted about 3-1/2 years). BUT, the motorhome sits in our backyard most of the time. Our bodies are worn out (feeling older by the year). Funny thing, our brains are younger than our bodies. Of course, we now have to watch our budget as well.
I'm sure some of you know how that goes.

[sky_free]

Don't know anything about maintaining a class A, but a TT is WAY less maintenance and monthly expense than a cottage/cabin/house. The tow vehicle is a daily driver so nothing extra there.

We have both and the vacation home is a huge burden both with $ and time spent. Property tax, sewer/water/trash/electricity/gas, mortgage -- it all adds up. When we go there for a weekend I usually spend 1/2 of one of the days working on maintenance. It's exhausting in the winter with snow removal. If you don't use it for 6-months of the year you will probably find some nice surprises when you go back in the spring.

We have 2 dogs and they love both, but being tied down to a single location has its limitations if you have been going there for 10 or more years.

Lastly, when you buy an RV you expect to take a bath when you sell it, but a house is a different matter because they are often leveraged 20/80%, so a 20% loss is essentially a 100% loss of whatever money you put into it. This is an issue for us because we bought near the top of the market with 20% down and the current market is still down 20% from that price. If we decided we wanted to sell in 2008 we would still be waiting 6-years later for the market to recover so we could sell it.

These considerations will have more or less weight depending on how much you pay for it, whether you mortgage, how you plan to maintain it and use it, etc., etc. Just make sure you find the right type of property for you with your typical usage and tolerance for doing maintenance yourself ind mind.

[dverstra]

Have fun in your next endeavor!:)