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My scale weights

jwc99
Explorer
Explorer
Took my rig to the scale, here are the numbers.

Truck specs
7600 GVWR
3950 GAWR FRT
4300 GAWR RR
10900 towing capacity
16700 gross combined

All weighs were done with a full tank, me in the truck, and everything loaded for a normal trip. We were on our way home from a trip when I stopped to weigh.

Weights from scale
1st weigh hitch connected
Steer axle. 3340
Drive axle. 3940
Trailer axle. 7420
Gross weight. 14700

2nd weigh trailer connected bars unhooked
Steer axle 3080
Drive axle 4320
Trailer axle. 7300
Gross weight 14700

3rd weigh truck only
Steer axle 3560
Drive axle. 2680
Gross weight. 6240

I'm getting a little truck squirm, not sway. I think the biggest problem is the P rated tires. If the weights look OK will going to LT tires help with the squirm?
11 REPLIES 11

vic46
Explorer
Explorer
Sorry wrong thread.
Vic
[COLOR=]Never argue with an idiot. You will be dragged down to their level and then beaten with experience.

Ron_Gratz
Explorer
Explorer
We Cant Wait wrote:
Ron sorry but the truck mfr. has no idea about weight distribution etc.---
I think you should try to convince Ford, Chevrolet/GMC, and Ram of your opinion.

---Read the manuals for the hitches and they say to ensure that the height before aand after hitching is the same, thus no unloading of the front axle.---
The manual for the OP's ReCurve R3 WDH calls for approximately equal added load on TV's front and rear axles.
If you read all of the WDH manuals, you'll see recommendations which range from adding equal load to front and rear TV axles (making the front and rear axle loads perhaps 300# heavier than unhitched), to making the front axle load the same as unhitched, to restoring only 50% of the removed load.

---Taking 220 lbs. off the front axle when hooked with the distribution hitch hooked also will cause steering issues especially on a wet road, he'll hydroplane in a heart beat and loose steering control.
Many people report towing with the WDH adjusted to restore less than 100% of load to the front axle -- in compliance with TV manufacturer specifications. I've seen no reports of that causing loss of steering control.

I believe the reason Ford, GMC/Chevrolet, Ram, Equal-i-zer, and others now are specifying less than 100% load restoration is pretty well summed up in this Letter to Editor by Richard H Klein, P E printed in TRAILER BODY BUILDERS Magazine. The comment which specifically addresses WDH adjustment is:

QUOTE
2. The statement โ€œtoo much tongue weight can force the truck down in the back, causing the front wheels to lift to the point where steering response and braking can be severely decreasedโ€ is not the real issue with heavy tongue weights. The real problem is that the tow vehicle's yaw stability, as measured by โ€œundersteer gradientโ€, is severely decreased. This increases the propensity of the tow vehicle to jackknife in turning maneuvers. Specifically, recent full scale testing conducted by the SAE Tow Vehicle Trailer Rating Committee (and now published in SAE J2807), determined that the use of weight distributing hitch torque should be minimized. In fact they recommend that the Front Axle Load Restoration (FALR) not exceed 100% (100% means that the front axle weight is brought back, via weight distribution, to a weight equal to its โ€œno trailerโ€ condition).
UNQUOTE

A related explanation from a representative of the company which manufactures the Equal-i-zer hitch was first posted here . It says:

QUOTE
In the past we had suggested that you should see a small drop on the front suspension. We are always trying to improve things here at Progress โ€“ our motto is โ€œSafe and Happy Customers,โ€ and so we are always reviewing our instructions and installation process. Recently, as part of this constant effort our engineers looked more deeply into this aspect of installation. We had always felt that a small drop was a sign that the trailerโ€™s weight was being transferred to the front axle, and that this was essentially a good thing.

As our engineers reviewed the instructions for the last round of renewal of our instructions, the found research results that contradicted our prior thinking. There has been a substantial amount of testing conducted by experts from SAE and the RV Industry Association to find out what will produce the best stability when towing. This towing suggests that you want your front axleโ€™s compression to be close to, but not lower than your free-standing height.
UNQUOTE

Those statements were made around 2010. Progress Mfg (Equal-I-zer) then changed their WDH-adjustment spec to state that load restoration could be in the range of 50-100%.
Since then, major TV and WDH manufacturers have made front axle load restoration specifications of 50%, 33%, 25% and 0% depending on tongue weight and tow vehicle capacity.

Ron

Cup_fan
Explorer
Explorer
Tires definitely make a difference. I had a Ram 1500 with P rated tires. Sidewall flex was terrible and led to some uncomfortable driving experiences while towing. I finally switched to LT 10 ply tires and it made a huge difference in handling.
2015 Silverado 2500HD
2015 Rockwood 8315 BSS
Sammie and Ginger (our four legged kids)
Navy veteran

jwc99
Explorer
Explorer
I only have 8000 miles on the truck. I really think most of the problem is the P series tires. I'm going to order the LT tires Friday and adjust the bars to put a little more weight on the front. Can't understand why they put P tires on a max tow truck.

We_Cant_Wait
Explorer
Explorer
Ron sorry but the truck mfr. has no idea about weight distribution etc. Read the manuals for the hitches and they say to ensure that the height before aand after hitching is the same, thus no unloading of the front axle. Taking 220 lbs. off the front axle when hooked with the distribution hitch hooked also will cause steering issues especially on a wet road, he'll hydroplane in a heart beat and loose steering control.

Ron_Gratz
Explorer
Explorer
How many miles do you have on the truck?

Some people report that the "squirm" goes away after the treads wear a bit.

Ron

jwc99
Explorer
Explorer
Yes it's a 2015 Sierra 1500 with the Max Tow package. I have been happy with the truck. I was hoping my weights were OK with this trailer. I believe the Goodyear SRA tires are the problem I'm having with the squirm I'm in getting in the truck. I think I will replace them with a set of Michelin LTX AT/2 tires. Down side is $1800 for a set of 20's from my local dealer.

Ron_Gratz
Explorer
Explorer
We Cant Wait wrote:
Adjust your bars up a bit to put that 220 lbs back on your front axle and off your rear axle. You should never be taking weight OFF your front axle when your bars are hooked up for towing.
I believe the OP has a 2015 GMC 1500. For that truck, the online Owners Manual specifies:

When using a weight-distributing hitch, measure distance (1) {ground to top of front wheel opening} before coupling the trailer to the hitch ball. Measure the height again after the trailer is coupled and adjust the spring bars so the distance (1) is as close as possible to halfway between the two measurements.



This implies the front axle load restoration should be about 50%.

The indicated tongue weight of 1160# caused a load of 480# to be removed from the front axle.
Application of WD caused an indicated 260# to be restored to the front.
This gives a front axle load restoration of 54% -- very close to the manufacturer's spec.

Beginning about 2010, Ford, Chevrolet/GMC , Equal-I-zer, and others have abandoned the notion that the WDH must be adjusted to restore 100% (or more) of the load which was removed from the TV's front axle.

Ron

We_Cant_Wait
Explorer
Explorer
Adjust your bars up a bit to put that 220 lbs back on your front axle and off your rear axle. You should never be taking weight OFF your front axle when your bars are hooked up for towing.

IDoMyOwnStunts
Explorer
Explorer
I have been there and felt that squirm. I tried inflating to max sidewall. I tried cranking up on the chains. In the end, I got rid of my P-rated tires. It's made a world of difference. Why they would put P-rated on a max tow is beyond me.

Be aware that it will change the ride characteristics of your truck when empty.
I'm done. This isn't a place to be helpful. It's a place where curmudgeons with a superiority complex will nit pick everything. If you want help, go elsewhere. Admin, delete my account please.

Terryallan
Explorer II
Explorer II
Well. you are losing 220lb off the steer axle. You are getting about 1/2 of your lost weight back. "Some" manufactures say that is good. If you are good with that. Higher weight tires will help.
Terry & Shay
Coachman Apex 288BH.
2013 F150 XLT Off Road
5.0, 3.73
Lazy Campers