New 30' TT w/ SUV TV, numbers check

[EstorilM]

Hey everyone, I've done a lot of the basic math already - but I'm aware that many of you will drill down into every ounce of weight / specs humanly possible, so I figured I'd see if anything jumped out (other than the fact that I "need to buy a real truck." 😉

For starters, this isn't a permanent solution, but things happened very quickly and a couple trips just fell out of nowhere (GF and I will actually be using the TT primarily for our second jobs as sports / event / PR photographers). I wanted to get four good trips this season or decided I'd wait till next year. Well long story short, I found a deal I couldn't pass up on a "used" (brand new) '16 Summerland 2570RL. We decided it was something we'd really try to use, and the smaller units would require a size bump in the near future - so we pulled the trigger on the bigger 2570.

TV is a 2006 Land Rover LR3 HSE (300hp 4.4 V8, ZF 6HP26, 4-corner air suspension)
Not really a typical SUV, some of the numbers are unusual. 🙂
Curb is 5796, payload 1806, GVWR 7121, GCWR 13,277, tow rating 7700

Trailer weighs 5845 dry, which is exactly how I haul it since the venues we go to have full hook-ups. Only load is photo gear and clothes (we hit walmart for food/drinks there). Tables and chairs maybe - generally 350-400lbs, at or behind the trailer axles, as TW seems high on this trailer vs. the others that I've seen. Propane is in there, but not much else.

One number that's strange to me is the GCWR; if I subtract the curb weight from GCWR I end up with less than the LR3's tow rating?

In any event even if I run with 7481 (GCWR - curb weight) take out the trailer, I'm at 1636. Subtract 400 gear and 80 propane, I'm at 1156. Since we're running with GCWR I subtract people (and dog!) and fuel, say 500. That leaves me with 656, which isn't a lot.

GVWR isn't an issue since the only thing in the vehicle is us and the dog. The above numbers look much better if I just start at the 7700 tow rating and work down from there, like most do - but I'm trying to be more technical and careful.

As for the intangibles, the TV is a tank. Since I bought the TT a month ago, I've put about 1400 miles on it. For the record I've towed many other things w/ it already, from 24' boats to large 2-horse trailers. Also have experience w/ 36-40' rigs, class C, old Peterbilt toter, etc.

The last TT trip included a run through the mountains between KY and VA on I-64 in WV. Used "command shift" the entire time, which actually lets you run all 6 gears (shows # on dash) which is nice. In regular auto it detects loads and knows when/what it's towing, but generally runs the revs much higher than I'd like. Most of the trip was in 5th @ 2-2200, 60-65.

Power was fine, though I did need to go into 2nd once up the main 6% grade. Hit the hill too slow and dumped my momentum, couldn't stay in 3rd, 2nd bumped me up to 4k which was serious overkill, so I just slowed down to 25mph / 3k 2nd and watched the gauges. Even at those speeds I only barely heard the fan start to kick in towards the top.

Braking was perfect, no hint of problems - even on the looong 7% down grade w/ 2 runaway truck ramps. Went into 4th for a bit to help, and bumped up the gain.

Handling is great, tracks like it's on rails in any/all situations, only issue is fast passes by tractor trailers, but I feel like that's always going to give you a "kick" in that case. FWIW Land Rover specifically states that you can't use WD / hitch devices. I'm assuming it messes with the stability sensors. In any event with zero hitch devices it towed like a dream. The air suspension really shined, it didn't matter what kind of high speed dips or the famous expansion joint bridge / repeated bumps we hit, it basically flattened through everything.

I'll probably upgrade to an LR4 (5.0 V8 with extra 75hp) GCWR bump to 14,000, but lower mileage and 4-5 years newer. They also have a trailer stability option that tracks sway with a sticker on the trailer, and automatically dampens / neutralizes it. You can program the length/axle # and have it paint your reverse path on the display is really cool also. I guess the backup is common now, but this was 10yr ago.

Whatever it is, it needs to be my daily driver, and I do appreciate the on-road & snow/off road performance. The only other thing I've really looked at is '13+ Ram 1500s (love the IRS & interior) but finding one (Laramie or Laramie Longhorn) with the air suspension, integrated tow package, and the 8 speed is almost impossible. Last time I looked the dealers wanted ~$52k!

So that's about it - I know I'll take some flak for the TV choice (the looks were priceless though!) but it's all I've got right now and I really have to give it credit, especially at 126,000mi.

[Acdii]

Without real weight numbers, its just a guessing game. Your payload calls for a trailer that Grosses no more than 7100-7300#. At 13% TW, thats roughly 920-950 pounds on the ball, leaving you roughly 430# for passengers and gear.

The lighter the load in the trailer, the more payload you will have left. That 5400# dry weight is meaningless, you need the actual loaded weight, trailer with all your stuff in it.

I pull a 28' Coleman with an F150 Screw 5.5 bed, 1470# payload(1580 in my new one) with 11% TW of roughly 680-730# depending on the water tanks, it tows very well, but if the hitch it off a little it becomes a sway monster.

Reason I mention it, is the wheel base. The SCrew F150 with 5.5 box is 145" of wheel base. Much longer than the LR3 at 113", same as that Expedition in that video who was clearly pulling way too much trailer for that vehicle. Your trailer at 30' is more than I would feel comfortable with in my F150.

If anything, that short wheel base can become a handful under the right(really wrong) conditions. Just something to be aware of. I hold to a philosophy of, just because it can, doesn't really mean it should.

Get it loaded up as you would, dishes, cookware, clothing, bedding, towels, etc(all these things are not accounted for in dry weight). All the things you would take with, including food, and head over to the scales. Make sure you have proper weight transfer and that you are not overloading the TV axles or GVWR(which if you loaded properly and have a nearly empty TV should be fine).

When driving, keep the speed down, the faster you go, the more likely sway can be induced, Be watchful of cross winds, keep your head on a swivel for passing Semi's in the RVM, as they can catch you by surprise, so you can be prepared for the push, and be mindful of long bridges. You should be ok, but after towing a few times, you just might realize you need a longer, heavier vehicle for that trailer.

[EstorilM]

Drew A. wrote:

EstorilM wrote:

TV is a 2006 Land Rover LR3 HSE (300hp 4.4 V8, ZF 6HP26, 4-corner air suspension)
Not really a typical SUV, some of the numbers are unusual. 🙂
Curb is 5796, payload 1806, GVWR 7121, GCWR 13,277, tow rating 7700

Something is wrong here. If the curb weight is 5796 and the GVWR is 7121, how can the payload be 1806? 7121 - 5796 = 1325

Look at the tire loading sticker on the door jamb. What does that list as the max payload?

True that's like how the GCWR - curb weight = less than the tow weight. Good catch.

The sticker makes a little more sense, "combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1473lbs" aka payload. Website I got the info from (the howstuffworks database) is off.

Still means the other numbers are off too, right? Everywhere says 7121. That's still about 100lb off, unless they got all of their numbers on a lighter curb weight base model - (no 3rd row..and the curtain airbags / audio controls back there etc, no rear AC system, no extra speakers / sub, etc) are probably at least 200lb lighter.

Not sure if they're allowed to publish the #s based on a single trim level. It would probably be a PITA to redo all the numbers every time they add some options.

7121 - 1473 on the sticker gives an assumed curb weight of 5648. I kinda wish. 🙂 That's the only thing I can think they did there.

[Drew_A_]

EstorilM wrote:

TV is a 2006 Land Rover LR3 HSE (300hp 4.4 V8, ZF 6HP26, 4-corner air suspension)
Not really a typical SUV, some of the numbers are unusual. 🙂
Curb is 5796, payload 1806, GVWR 7121, GCWR 13,277, tow rating 7700

Something is wrong here. If the curb weight is 5796 and the GVWR is 7121, how can the payload be 1806? 7121 - 5796 = 1325

Look at the tire loading sticker on the door jamb. What does that list as the max payload?

[EstorilM]

Hideout17 wrote:
If it works for you,run it. Use common sense with towing and know your limits. I pull a hideout 26rls with my tundra. Tows very nice,predictable. Most here will say you need a 3/4 ton or a dually to tow anything over a tent camper.

Makes sense to me, thanks - and yup, the horse world is even worse as seemingly everyone can afford to have an F450 King Ranch sitting around to pull their 2h BP trailer 200 miles a year. 😉

[Hideout17]

If it works for you,run it. Use common sense with towing and know your limits. I pull a hideout 26rls with my tundra. Tows very nice,predictable. Most here will say you need a 3/4 ton or a dually to tow anything over a tent camper.

[EstorilM]

Sandia Man wrote:
If you are satisfied with the towing comfort provided by your current TT/TV combo which from your post apparently you do, why the query if you have worked out the math. Without any real weights I would say you are pretty close to what your current TV could tow safely and comfortably, no need to have someone else justify or rebuke your experience. If you're happy you're good to go.

Some like lots of safety margin, others want to utilize every last ounce of payload, in either event as long as manufacturer limits aren't exceeded one can expect to get where they are going while towing. Our TT can vary in weight by nearly 2K# (if we bring toys/water) depending on the trip we have planned, from our experience towing comfort degrades significantly the closer we are to max.

Not sure - the numbers add up, and it's definitely a confidence-inspiring rig, but it's just an unusual combination and I see a LOT of math bring thrown around in this forum.

I certainly enjoy safety margins, and a couple specs seem to get near my limits, but I don't see anything going "over" - and after endless hours in the mountains, I'm very happy with the overall performance.

You just try to keep the 2K# distributed evenly? That's a crazy difference but I've often wondered about the trailer's GVWR nearly 2k# over its empty weight. I'm sure supplies, dry camping, etc would make a big difference. I'll save that for the next vehicle / kids / etc. 😉

[EstorilM]

sch911 wrote:

EstorilM wrote:
almost 1000lb under vehicle weight limit.

How do you know this if you haven't weighed it?

Payload capacity of the TV is almost always the limiting factor when using an SUV to tow a 30' TT.

GCWR must also be considered but until you get past the payload limitation you won't really know.

I'll definitely get it weighed, but again - it's completely empty with all the seats down so the dog can relax on the blankets. It's a 7-pax model w/ 1800lb payload and air suspension that's carrying us two and a dog. I realize you need to weigh the vehicle to be safe / sure, but I'm certainly not going to be over. 🙂 At least for payload and the vehicle rating.

Byrogie wrote:
While the weight may be fine, a 30' trailer on a SUV wheelbase may flop around quite a bit. Had a buddy who towed a 28' trailer with a short box F150. Weights well within limits but fishtailed terribly, even with sway bars and WDH.

Yeah I can't really put a finger on why it does so well. On paper that wheelbase should be a nightmare, but maybe the independent suspension and the 50/50 weight distribution (weighs ~1500# MORE than most F150s) help. Definitely the air suspension as the suspension geometry, camber, toe, rebound etc remains exactly the same under all loads.
Zero fishtailing or getting "loose" back there. Quick lane changes (merging traffic for example) and it stays planted, never swings over. ONLY time it did something I didn't like was when tractor trailers approached / passed close by, but again I've experienced that in most high-profile trailers (at least BPs). We hit a couple storms and I slowed to 50-55 with the winds, but most vehicles were getting blown around.

[Sandia_Man]

If you are satisfied with the towing comfort provided by your current TT/TV combo which from your post apparently you do, why the query if you have worked out the math. Without any real weights I would say you are pretty close to what your current TV could tow safely and comfortably, no need to have someone else justify or rebuke your experience. If you're happy you're good to go.

Some like lots of safety margin, others want to utilize every last ounce of payload, in either event as long as manufacturer limits aren't exceeded one can expect to get where they are going while towing. Our TT can vary in weight by nearly 2K# (if we bring toys/water) depending on the trip we have planned, from our experience towing comfort degrades significantly the closer we are to max.

[sch911]

EstorilM wrote:
almost 1000lb under vehicle weight limit.

How do you know this if you haven't weighed it?

Payload capacity of the TV is almost always the limiting factor when using an SUV to tow a 30' TT.

GCWR must also be considered but until you get past the payload limitation you won't really know.

[Byrogie]

While the weight may be fine, a 30' trailer on a SUV wheelbase may flop around quite a bit. Had a buddy who towed a 28' trailer with a short box F150. Weights well within limits but fishtailed terribly, even with sway bars and WDH.

[EstorilM]

sch911 wrote:
You need to weigh the tow vehicle and get the actual weight loaded.

GVWR - ACTUAL WEIGHT OF TV (LOADED) = WHAT YOU CAN TOW

This calculation will likely end up being less than the rated tow capacity.

Don't let this happen!

Thanks for the reply - I've already seen / replied to that thread. I don't think GROSS weight was an issue there, it was either loaded improperly or driven by an idiot. Sure you can get away with both of those issues if it was pulled by a bus, but I'm not sure if that's good or bad. 🙂

In any event, isn't it better to go off GCWR if you have the #, since the MFG is factoring in tow weights?

GVWR is no issue, as I stated the vehicle is empty minus fuel and us/dog - almost 1000lb under vehicle weight limit.

[sch911]

You need to weigh the tow vehicle and get the actual weight loaded.

GVWR - ACTUAL WEIGHT OF TV (LOADED) = WHAT YOU CAN TOW

This calculation will likely end up being less than the rated tow capacity.

Don't let this happen!