RV Fuel Issues & Prices - Post 'Em Here!

[Dick_A]

All other fuel threads will be automatically deleted. 🙂

[eltejano1]

Frank, our domestic resources are limited. We have a few deposits left but they would only buy us a few years if we pumped them bone dry. Then what would we use for plastics, fabrics, coatings and chemicals? Moreover, they are mostly in difficult places, like deep water offshore, or in environmentally sensitive areas that would be extremely difficult to exploit because any authorizing legislation would be held-up in court for years if not decades. It won't help to rail against the environmentalists - they comprise a significant segment of the electorate. They are a political fact of life - well-educated, affluent and politically powerful beyond their actual numbers. We would have to reach a compromise with them in order to drill in some of these areas, and they have taken a stand - "ANWAR over our dead bodies". I can't really blame them. There is very little pristine wilderness left.

Sorry, Frank, but trying to drill our way out of this mess is not the answer. There doesn't seem to be any solution except rapid development and deployment of alternatives. My idea of conserving our way out of it has been effectively shot down in this discussion too - so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

Instead of getting into a protracted political war with Greenpeace and the WWF, or parking our cars and walking to work, we may be better served by putting our collective nose to the grindstone on the technology front. This discussion has changed my mind - from conservation to alternatives.

Jack

[The_Weekenders]

eltejano1 wrote:

Weekender wrote:
Life is not a rehersal, this is your one shot!

You may just be right about that. It would be very easy for me to embrace your philosophy, hitch up the trailer and hit the road. And I may well regret not having done so. When we're all stting to together in the poor house shooting the bull, you will have the last laugh!;)

Jack

You can embrace doom and gloom and wish for what might be but I will be having fun with DW and the fiver. In fact while you were posting the "sky is falling" all this weekend, we met some great new friends at our RV.Net Dakota Rally. The food, fun and company of others and getting away was all worth it. We don't get into knee-jerk reactions.

[H_1]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but we've allowed ourselves the luxuries of bad planning, bad zoning, and a sense of entitlement to $1 or $2 fuel.
Schools within walking/biking distance of neighborhoods, public transit for those who can't afford to/do not choose to drive, neighborhoods with access to markets and services that don't require an excursion onto a 4 lane road - these aren't luxuries, these are staples - everywhere else on the planet. Not having them is a luxury.

We've allowed ourselves the luxury of thinking we're too good for the bus, that we "have" to drive 1 mile to get a gallon of milk or loaf of bread, or (per earlier example) 30 miles for some basil. Yeah, I still do that sometimes too, but that doesn't mean it isn't extravagant in its way.

The F-250 towing a blue-boy, that image always cracks me up. If that isn't a luxury, I'd be interested to know what is.

[eltejano1]

Weekender wrote:
Life is not a rehersal, this is your one shot!

You may just be right about that. It would be very easy for me to embrace your philosophy, hitch up the trailer and hit the road. And I may well regret not having done so. When we're all stting to together in the poor house shooting the bull, you will have the last laugh!;)

Jack

[sirdrakejr]

We haven't "ALLOWED" ourselves any luxury. What has happened it that we have blocked the exploitation of our own resources. Rather the get our own we go begging for someone else's oil. When we decide to go for our own, the greedy investors who are driving the price up on PAPER will lose. The prices will fall to where they should be, NOT where investors THINK it should be. It is no longer an open market driven by consumer demand, it is a paper market.
BLAME THEM!
Frank

[H_1]

Ok, I'll try to express what I'm thinking another way.
Prices are up, and it's probably a mini-bubble. That is, firms like Goldman Sachs expect it to drop down towards $100/bbl sometime in the next year or so, but they also note that it may rise to $200/bbl in the next 9 months.

T Boone Pickens, long associated with oil interests, sees it going nowhere but up, and has bet big on wind.


It's convenient to blame this on Exxon or Opec or whatever. But the fact remains, that price eases when demand drops. If the demand dropped by 50% nobody's seriously suggesting that the price would hit $270/bbl, yet that's what one poster suggested.

Another glaring fact is that we in the US have allowed ourselves the luxury of driving for quick errands, planned communities with no services, and schools with no way for students to walk or bike.

That's just nuts. I saw a couple once - I don't ask you to believe it, but it's true - who towed two 2-stroke golf carts with them and used them for every errand more than 100 yards. I also once saw a 3/4 ton truck pulling a blue-boy 1/4 mile. Crazy stuff.

[stevenicoldeact]

macira wrote:
I think we all miss the real issue. YES, fuel is out of sight, BUT many other things are following it. We are on our way to a recession that will make the 30's look like a picnic. The politicians we have and those that hope to take over either have no clue or are too crooked to be of use.

I certainly hope that you are a pessimistic one by nature, but given the retail trend of diesel#2 in Hillsboro, Oregon: $3.939, March 29, 2008, to $4.899, May 24, 2008, that's an increase of 24.37%, or an annual return of investment (percentage rate) of 146%. This can't continue, something has to give.

Wow.!, but first off, how can I get my investment portfolio to get in on those returns?

Jokes aside, when there is cold weather this winter, how are people going to pay for heat? If it's almost $5 a gallon for diesel#2 in Oregon Memorial Day Weekend, what will the price of fuel oil be in the coming months?

Not to mention, fuel surcharges will drive delivery prices up, which trickles down to the consumer.

Hold on, yeah, we're on our way somewhere, let's help figure out how we can fix it.

[traxtermax]

H_1 wrote:

eltejano1 wrote:


One other thing - someone in the thread pointed-out that if we cut consumption by 10%, OPEC will simply lower production by that amount to maintain the price...reduce supply to maintain high prices just like some think is happening now.

Maybe, maybe not. By this logic if they raised the price to $100,000 a bbl people would consume moreI don't see your point. How much oil could anyone buy at that price? Seems to me that consumption would be almost non-existant, demand would plummet and so would prices. - or any one of a dozen other combinations.

Simple fact is that OPEC only controls 40% of the total,they don't have to control it all, just enough to make us bleed--maybe 10-15% would do it under the present conditions and as oil prices go up, non-oil sources of energy become economically viable.True but it's the rapid transition and voyage into uncharted waters that's going to create more problems.

There's a lot of potential upside to this whole thing, if we are willing to see it and act on it.Though some think the best way to teach someone to swim is to throw them off the dock in ten feet of water. People need time to learn and adjust -- wait, I see my neighbor doggie paddling toward his dock at this very moment -- he's adjusting very well because his boat ran out of gas. Before that, he couldn't swim at all!

The politicians have to come up with an effective, realistic game plan that serves the citizens -- which probably means they will lose lobbist money -- that's why real solutions are tough to accomplish. That's a major problem and it's why they take so long to address problems and then eventually water them down to make it appear as if they accomplished something.

Removing big oil tax breaks and ethanol subsidies would be a start but see how successful or fast that idea will take hold. They'll want a study and won't act until after the elections, if then.

Edit: fixed double wording and clarified a sentence (poor proof reading)

[lostmarbles]

Remember this video about those that are secretly running us, thru oil...

CLICK HERE!

[H_1]

eltejano1 wrote:


One other thing - someone in the thread pointed-out that if we cut consumption by 10%, OPEC will simply lower production by that amount to maintain the price...

Maybe, maybe not. By this logic if they raised the price to $100,000 a bbl people would consume more - or any one of a dozen other combinations.

Simple fact is that OPEC only controls 40% of the total, and as oil prices go up, non-oil sources of energy become economically viable.

There's a lot of potential upside to this whole thing, if we are willing to see it and act on it.

[The_Weekenders]

sirdrakejr wrote:
Come on folks, get real!

Last year I was paying about $2.90 a gallon for diesel. This year so far I have paid UP to $4.40 a gallon. So the difference is $1.50 a gallon more this year. So if I tow my 35 foot 5th wheel 1000 miles this year it will cost me about $135 more at 12 MPG when towing. So is it worth stopping what I enjoy for a measly $135?? Sure the total sounds bad but the real difference is not bad enough to give up a lifestyle.

It isn't like we were paying NOTHING last year to travel. You have to compare the true costs of RVing this year against the past. We aren't that bad off. Let the "doom and gloomers" wail and weep. If they stopped to think about it, they would agree, this year is bad but not enough to stop RVing.

Am I wrong?
Frank

You are correct Frank! It is like the doom and gloomers get their jollies from the 24/7 news coverage of the sky is falling from the drive by media. Life is not a rehersal, this is your one shot!

[eltejano1]

"Most, chose instead to go to the casino's for their entertainment."

We live near the Louisiana line and big casinos are right across the Sabine River. Great place to go if you can control the gambling. The Paragon Casino in Marksville, LA has the best rv park I've EVER seen anywhere - olympic size pool, spotlessly clean, long pull throughs, shuttle bus every 15 minutes; every conceivable amenity, including golf, and several 1st class restaurants. The last time we were there (last year), the rv park cost $12.95 - half that with Passport America!

One other thing - someone in the thread pointed-out that if we cut consumption by 10%, OPEC will simply lower production by that amount to maintain the price - and it just sunk-in to my feeble brain. That's unforunately true - that's been their practice in the past. So, I guess that shoots down - seriously - my idea of lowering prices by conserving fuel. that leaves us with no alternative but to stay home or pay their ransom!!

Jack

Didn't accomplish much here, did we?

[topflite51]

Skid Row Joe wrote:

sirdrakejr wrote:
Come on folks, get real!

Last year I was paying about $2.90 a gallon for diesel. This year so far I have paid UP to $4.40 a gallon. So the difference is $1.50 a gallon more this year. So if I tow my 35 foot 5th wheel 1000 miles this year it will cost me about $135 more at 12 MPG when towing. So is it worth stopping what I enjoy for a measly $135?? Sure the total sounds bad but the real difference is not bad enough to give up a lifestyle.

It isn't like we were paying NOTHING last year to travel. You have to compare the true costs of RVing this year against the past. We aren't that bad off. Let the "doom and gloomers" wail and weep. If they stopped to think about it, they would agree, this year is bad but not enough to stop RVing.

Am I wrong?
Frank

No, Frank, IMO you're not wrong.

The fuel pricing-irony of last year vs. this year has eluded many. Last year the price of travel fuel wasn't an "emergency," but this year it is an "emergency." The bright spot for the economy has been the vast number of new economy car and hybrid buyers I'm reading about. After buying a new econobox, ironically, the gas hogs are being kept at home, with no intention of selling them. The irony of spending tens of thousands of dollars on an economy car, to save a few hundred dollars in fuel, is elusive.

According to HNN & ABC news today, between 25% to 33% of Americans polled, reported cancelling all Memorial Day weekend travel plans.

Frank and Joe, you both have it right.

I wonder how many of those that cancelled their travel plans because of the weather? I know we did, as did a lot of our rv'ing friends and neighbors. Most, chose instead to go to the casino's for their entertainment.:B

[H_1]

Maybe people quit driving so much. Sorry to sound harsh, but I live 3 miles from work, and about half the people I work with live a comparable distance - or less - and they drive. That's just messed up.

They do it in Stockholm, they do it in Copenhagen, something around 40% of short trips are by foot or bike, contrasted to 4% in the US. If somebody says we can't change our habits, I'm going to have to call BS.

For the record, overall in the US, about 0.5% (one half of one percent) of people commute by bike. In Minneapolis it's 2.5% (two point five percent). Weather, obviously, is a surmountable obstacle.

[eltejano1]

Sea Dog wrote:
When everyone and his brother diverts his discretionary dollars from restaurants, ball games etc to the fuel tank, that is when trouble will strike.

I hadn't thought of that! It will be more than a ripple effect - it'll be a tidal wave!