TV is "tracking"

[willi4nd]

New truck and new trailer...truck is tracking or pulling when I am towing.
Its pretty much constant, pulling left, pulling right, constantly having to countersteer.

TV is a 2015 Nissan Frontier 6 cyl 4x4, tow cap is 6500 lbs. I am towing a 2015 Heartland TrailRunner SLE 22 with a weight of 4350 lbs.

It doesn't matter if it is empty or full of gear it still pulls...any ideas?

[mkirsch]

He can also search for posts made by himself, as it's likely we won't see him again until spring anyway. It's not like us know-it-alls that can't shut our pieholes that post and post and post... 🙂

[BarneyS]

willi4nd wrote:
Snip...
Trailer is winterized, when I break it out next Spring I am going to re-read the thread.

Just a hint for you so you can find this thread next spring.

It will probably be buried many pages down the list and hard to find so click on the blue "Suscribe" link at the beginning of the thread in the gray area. That will put the thread at the top of your home page in "My Forums".

Next spring, when you want to re-read it, just click on that link and you will be taken to the thread. 🙂
Barney

[mkirsch]

willi4nd wrote:
To me it simple subtraction Truck 6500 tow cap - Trailer 4300 lbs...no brainer. I guess thats not it works.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works.

The reality is that your truck does not have a 6500lb tow capacity, and the trailer does not weigh 4300lbs. This is because you put stuff in the truck which lowers its tow capacity, and you put stuff in the trailer which raises its weight.

Depending on the trailer manufacturer, that 4300lb weight may be with no options, no battery, no propane. Two tanks of propane and a battery will add about 100lbs. Air conditioner, another 100lbs. 30 gallons of water is about 250lbs. That's not counting your pots and pans, clothing, food, tchochkes etc..

The 6500lb tow rating on the truck makes the assumption that you are using 100% of the truck's payload capacity for trailer tongue weight. Meaning, the truck exactly as it rolled off the assembly line. No bed cap. No passengers. No firewood, bicycles, kayaks, tools, or toys in the bed.

[willi4nd]

Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. Everybody has provided so many great suggestions.

Few thing I am going to definitely do is weigh my rig, there is a CAT scale just a few miles away, look into shocks and trans cooler.

Trailer is winterized, when I break it out next Spring I am going to re-read the thread.

[noteven]

Hi willi4nd - I'm a bit dense most days now I understand what your rig does. Once the WD hitch is adjusted correctly, and your truck tires inflated to max sidewall psi on the rear and normal psi for the weight on the front when towing - if tracking is not reduced to acceptable level or eliminated I would have the alignment of the trailer checked and ensure it is correct.

It has probly been mentioned in the posts above but when you squat the rear of a vehicle with weight and lift the front, the castor of the front wheels is reduced so the steering has less ability to self center and go straight...

Best to make one change at a time so you know what is causing what result.

[willi4nd]

gmw photos wrote:

willi4nd wrote:

....snip....

Thank you so much for the encouraging post, have been in the dumps since I started the thread.

When I set out to purchase my truck and trailer, I took the advice from the salesman from both mainly because I dont have much experience in towing.

To me it simple subtraction Truck 6500 tow cap - Trailer 4300 lbs...no brainer. I guess thats not it works.

Being that both are brand spanking new I have no choice but to make due, adjust everything as perfect as I can and try to be smart.

Could you possibly explain WD hitch 100 FALR?

Also, so you dont think it is necessary to add a transmission cooler?

When I said "100 FALR" I should have typed "100% FALR". The object of that is to get the weight that is on the front ( steer ) axle to be the same, when the trailer is hooked up, and the WD bars are engaged, as they are when the truck is solo.
To determine this, you are going to take the truck across the scales by itself, then two more passes over the scales with the trailer. This procedure is outlined here ( courtesy of forum member Ron G 😞

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/25928885/gotomsg/25929827.cfm#25929827

When you first look at this, it may appear a bit confusing or daunting, but once you get in to doing it, you'll see it all makes sense.
In the end, your goal will be ( when all hooked up, and with WD engaged...ready to roll ) to have the trailer level, have 12% to 13% of the trailer weight as tongue weight, and have the steer axle weigh the same as it does while the truck is solo. If the steer axle is too light, then you need to transfer more weight with the WD hitch. If it's too heavy, you reset to transfer less weight. Either too light or too heavy can result in poor steering characteristics.

As a general comment, this truck is like most trucks in that the "tow capacity" number can be misleading. The first limit you typically run into is payload ( GVWR ) or rear axle load rating.

Regarding adding a trans cooler: it may, or may not be necessary. I'd say this though, there is pretty much no downside to installing one, and if you fall into the category of "yes, my truck needs one", then certainly we'd call adding one a good thing for sure. They are cheap insurance.

Two other things that I have done to my Frontier, both of which are a huge improvement, are changing the shocks to Bilstein 5100, and adding a Helwig anti-roll bar to the rear suspension.

hope this helps

EDIT: a little further thought on setting up. Some folks have stated that "measuring the front ride height of the truck" as a way to achieve 100% front axle load restoration. And yes, on this truck ( mine anyway ) doing it by measuring with a tape measure, and then following up confirming it at the CAT scale, proved that doing it by ride height was in fact accurate.

wanders back and forth on straight road requiring constant steering corrections both ways to go straight

[trail-explorer]

willi4nd wrote:
...and to make sure the distance is the same on front and rear tires of the truck.

??

[noteven]

willi4nd wrote:

06Fargo wrote:
If the tracking or pulling is not a "wander" or "sway" condition but is consistent when there is no cross wind i.e. always to the left, or always to the right, check to make sure the trailer brakes are cool and not set to drag on one side, and then check the trailer wheel alignment. If the trailer is new ask for it to be corrected under warranty.

You bring up a good point, the truck tracked a bit on its own so I called the dealer and the service advisor said the salesman will over inflate the tire to keep them from getting flat spots. He suggested I adjust air pressure to 3-4 lbs under max. I assumed it may have needed an alignment.

I haven't noticed it tracking much after I adjusted.

Please describe what you mean by "tracking". Does your truck and trailer wander back and forth on straight road requiring constant steering corrections both ways to go straight?
Or does it pull to one side requiring constant steering input to one side to go straight?

[gmw_photos]

willi4nd wrote:

....snip....

Thank you so much for the encouraging post, have been in the dumps since I started the thread.

When I set out to purchase my truck and trailer, I took the advice from the salesman from both mainly because I dont have much experience in towing.

To me it simple subtraction Truck 6500 tow cap - Trailer 4300 lbs...no brainer. I guess thats not it works.

Being that both are brand spanking new I have no choice but to make due, adjust everything as perfect as I can and try to be smart.

Could you possibly explain WD hitch 100 FALR?

Also, so you dont think it is necessary to add a transmission cooler?

When I said "100 FALR" I should have typed "100% FALR". The object of that is to get the weight that is on the front ( steer ) axle to be the same, when the trailer is hooked up, and the WD bars are engaged, as they are when the truck is solo.
To determine this, you are going to take the truck across the scales by itself, then two more passes over the scales with the trailer. This procedure is outlined here ( courtesy of forum member Ron G 😞

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/25928885/gotomsg/25929827.cfm#25929827

When you first look at this, it may appear a bit confusing or daunting, but once you get in to doing it, you'll see it all makes sense.
In the end, your goal will be ( when all hooked up, and with WD engaged...ready to roll ) to have the trailer level, have 12% to 13% of the trailer weight as tongue weight, and have the steer axle weigh the same as it does while the truck is solo. If the steer axle is too light, then you need to transfer more weight with the WD hitch. If it's too heavy, you reset to transfer less weight. Either too light or too heavy can result in poor steering characteristics.

As a general comment, this truck is like most trucks in that the "tow capacity" number can be misleading. The first limit you typically run into is payload ( GVWR ) or rear axle load rating.

Regarding adding a trans cooler: it may, or may not be necessary. I'd say this though, there is pretty much no downside to installing one, and if you fall into the category of "yes, my truck needs one", then certainly we'd call adding one a good thing for sure. They are cheap insurance.

Two other things that I have done to my Frontier, both of which are a huge improvement, are changing the shocks to Bilstein 5100, and adding a Helwig anti-roll bar to the rear suspension.

hope this helps

EDIT: a little further thought on setting up. Some folks have stated that "measuring the front ride height of the truck" as a way to achieve 100% front axle load restoration. And yes, on this truck ( mine anyway ) doing it by measuring with a tape measure, and then following up confirming it at the CAT scale, proved that doing it by ride height was in fact accurate.

[lawrosa]

trans cooler gauge... This is what I installed..

http://www.bmracing.com/products/80212-transmission-temperature-gauge/?mk=&yr=&md=&smd=&eng=

You can easy fit bigger. I have a 20gvw tube and fin.. Stack fin is better but put in the 24k gvw one since your in kentucky..




This one IMO..

http://derale.com/products/fluid-coolers/transmission/series-8000-plate-fin2013-10-28-09-53-27471243...

[lawrosa]

When I open it up in the Spring the first thing I will do is adjust and weigh.
I checked into trans coolers and have the one I want bookmarked, it is for towing: Cooler

Go bigger IMO...

[lawrosa]

The 4420 lbs., is that your truck by itself? Or is it loaded with people and gear for a trip? If that is curb weight of the empty truck, your actual total payload capacity is 480 lbs.

Thats me in the truck and a full tank of gas..

That payload is if you go by GVWR or my 4900 lb rating..

I do not go by this.. I go by tires and axle weights. My axle rates are 2700 lbs.. ( My tires are above any rating of that truck..)

DOT and comercial drivers use axle and tire weights.. I follow that rule as I drove comercial trucks for a living...

2700x2=5400 lbs..

And you see I restored my front axle to original weight with truck alone.. This is a properly set up WD hitch..

Even thogh my TW is at 9% and not the 10-15% recommended.. My spring pack is the weak link in my set up, as well as the transmission..

[Wishin]

I've experienced the same thing with a friction sway control. It tends to stick in a position just off from the vehicle going straight. I constantly had to correct left or right just a very small amount, it never wanted to just track straight. I changed to the Reese Dual Cam and never had that issue again since it locks in at straight ahead.

[DaveF-250SD]

lawrosa wrote:
Then get to a cat scale and find out for sure what your dealing with... After I did my driveway wheel well mesuring and adjusting I went to a cat scale and got my weights...

Here I got weighed my truck alone.. ( I have 2700 lbs axles per my door tag.. and GVW of 4900 lbs)

front 2560 ( 140 left before over axles)
rear 1860 ( 840 lb payload remaining)



This is without wd hooked up..

2360 front.. ( Wow 200 lbs off front wheels..
2480 rear.. ( You dont get your TW this way by subtracting the empty truck weight FYI but 620 lbs.. Sheesh)

And to let you know my TW is advertised at 420 on the trailer sticker....

Trailer was dry here
3980



Now you see with my wd activated...

front axle restored to empty truck weight.

2560 Front (same as empty truck)
2200 rear ( 340 lbs on rear)

4060 trailer.. ( 80 lbs added to trailer from TW)





This is as good as it gets with my set up.. I drive 65 mph, have tires inflated to max when towing. Drives straight and true and never sway..

But its a lot of weight for the 190 hp s 10 v6 to pull.. But the s10 makes all its torgue at 2800 rpms and has 3:73 rear. Thats why I get away with it...

The 4420 lbs., is that your truck by itself? Or is it loaded with people and gear for a trip? If that is curb weight of the empty truck, your actual total payload capacity is 480 lbs.

[willi4nd]

lawrosa wrote:
As I satated you need to get your front axle to original height/weight. I showed you an example of this with my weight tickets from the cat scale..

I said its do able, but you need to set up the WD hitch better.. We gave you all the knowledge here already to do this..

Does your truck have a trans temp gauge built into the dash info center?

When I towed with the factory trans cooler that is part of the radiator my trans ran very very hot.. I immeadiatly changed the fluid, filter, and got a gauge to determine temp,,

I then installed the biggest trans cooler I could fit behind the grill.. My temps never exceed 190F now..

My trans was the weakest link in towing the weight I am... My spring pack on my truck is the weakest link for TW...

My truck came with LT tires rated at 2270 lbs each @ 50 psi.. LOL.. So tires are not the weakest link..

All trucks have a weak link..

Follow the advice given and set up the WD as shown.. Then get to a scale as I show..

If you can restore the front, which you can, you will be fine...

You never told us the spring bar ratings?????? IMO you need 1000 lb ers.. If they gave you anything less return them and tell them you want the 1000 lb rated ones...

When I open it up in the Spring the first thing I will do is adjust and weigh.
I checked into trans coolers and have the one I want bookmarked, it is for towing: Cooler

Spring bar rating: V-5 rating 1200 lbs.