Winter RV camping

[DianneOK]

Winter RV camping:

This information on winter RVing is provided courtesy of Tiger Run Resort, Breckenridge, CO.

DianneOK, moderator

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Skiing and cold weather RVing can make for a fun vacation but, if you don’t set up properly, a fun vacation can become a nightmare. Over the years I’ve watched a number of people forget some simple steps. The following guide may save you some grief.

1) The first thing is to follow that old IBM motto“THINK”. Not every motor home is constructed the same. What may work perfectly fine on one RV may need to be modified to work on yours. THINK about what you are doing. THINK about what can go wrong.

2) SEWER: If you let your sewer line permanently connected make sure it has a continuous slope. This may be accomplished with a four inch plastic pipe or a half round pipe. If water has a place to collect it will freeze and when you flex the sewer line it will break. Wrapping the hose with insulation will slow the rate of freezing.

Many people keep the sewer line in a warm compartment and only hook it up when they want to dump the tanks. If you do this, return the hose to the compartment immediately after use.

Some RV’s and especially fifth wheels have exposed holding tanks and/or dump valves or the holding tank compartments are not heated. Adding antifreeze to holding tanks can help. If the compartment is insulated, but not heated, adding a small space heater to the compartment may be enough.

Some people skirt or bank snow around the base of their RV. If you do this you will need to run breather tubes for the generator and heaters. Think carefully when you skirt, no two RV’s are constructed the same. Many people believe that skirting traps moisture under the RV and accelerates corrosion.

Heat will escape anywhere it can. Placing refrigerator thermometers in compartments can give you an indication of potential problems. Using remotely read thermometers can make the job easier.

3) Water Hose: An unprotected water hose will rapidly freeze, even on relatively warm nights. There are two common ways of protecting your water line.

A) Fill your fresh water holding tank. Then disconnect the hose from at least the dog house, and drain it. Disconnecting at the dog house is important because the water must drain from the dog house faucet. Refill the fresh water tank when ever necessary.

B) At the office you can purchase an insulated, heated hose. Connect the male end of the hose to your inlet water connection. If your connection is on the outside of the coach, wrap the tail of the heater tape around the connection and cover with insulation.

Connect the female end of the heated hose to the dog house faucet. After you verify that there are no leaks in the connections, wrap the tail of the heater tape around the hose and the faucet and cover with insulation. Plug the heater tape into the GFCI protected duplex outlet in the electrical connection panel.

NOTE: Do not turn off or trip the GFCI circuit. This circuit is used to heat the potable water riser. If the GFCI is turned off freezing and expensive damage can result.


4) Jacks: Put blocks of wood under the leveling jacks. Jacks can and frequently do freeze to the concrete. They are almost impossible to free up when this happens. If you use wood, you can raise the jacks, drive forward, and then free up the wood with ice melt, hammer and chisels.

5) Gas Refrigerator: The refrigerant in a propane/electric refrigerator is a mixture of distilled water, ammonia, sodium carbonate and hydrogen gas, all at 200 psi pressure. When the temperature drops below 20 degrees this liquid can turn to a gel and may permanently plug the coils of the refrigeration system.

To help prevent this from happening, remove the outside refrigerator access cover and use duct tape to cover the top two (out of three) vent slots. Applying the tape to the inside of the cover will prevent leaving marks when removing the tape. Alternately, and easier to do, is to use round half inch pipe insulation to plug the top two slots from the outside.

It is also necessary to put a 100 watt light bulb behind the access cover near the base of the coils. Don’t lean the bulb on any flammable material.

These tricks have helped me avoid the $1000+ repair bill required to replace the heat exchanger.

Many manufacturers do not insulate or heat the ice maker water supply. If your coach is one if these, either drain the water line or insulate and wrap it with heater tape on all exposed copper feed pipes.

6) Heat:

Hydro-Hot: Many new RV’s are equipped with Hydro-Hot diesel fuel heating systems. At 10,000 ft there is 30% less oxygen and the fuel burns rich. The resulting soot can clog the combustion chamber and the fuel nozzle. If you are going to be here for more than a short period (a couple of days) it is necessary to adjust the air inlet port. On many RV’s this is not a simple job, and unless you have previously performed a cleaning maintenance and/or nozzle replacement I don’t recommend making your first attempt in the cold.

Contrary to popular believe Hydor-Hots are fuel guzzlers. The amount of diesel fuel used can be greatly reduced by turning on the Hydro-Hot 1650 watt electric heating element in addition to the diesel burner, and using a couple of small space heaters in the RV.

Propane: If you use propane heat, the propane on board your RV will likely only last a few days (less than a week).

Tiger Run has a limited number of 100 pound propane bottles available to rent on a first come basis. Your RV will need an Extend-a-Stay and connecting hose. Extend-a-Stays are available at the Tiger Run office. Install the Extend-a-Stay between the propane shut off valve on your RV and the pressure regulator. Be certain to shut off the RV propane valve when installing the Extend-a-Stay or when using the 100-lb bottle. Be certain to check for leaks with a soapy spray solution. If you are the least bit uncomfortable with this procedure, get a professional to help.

Heat Pumps: Heat pumps are not effective below 40 degrees F.

7) Entry Holes: Make sure that all entry holes around pipes and cables are packed with insulation.

😎 Water Pump: A susceptible component is the water pump. This is often bolted to the basement floor and, because it is usually full of water it may need special attention. If the coach manufacturer does not supply sufficient heat, a small space heater placed in this location is usually sufficient.

9) Cables and Hoses: Keeping all cables and hoses off the ground and out of the snow may prevent damage, particularly when you get ready to leave.

10) Fuel: Use winter blend diesel fuel and/or add anti gel to your fuel before arriving at the RV park.

Preparing to Leave:

You do everything similar to a normal warm weather departure, but there are a few things to watch for:

11) Engine Block Heater: Turn on your engine block heater at least three hours before you start your engine. I generally run the block heater over night.

12) Slides:

Snow and Ice accumulates on the slide awnings. The slide awning generally will not properly roll up with snow or ice on it. Clean the snow, ice and frost off the awning.

Many slide awnings have a small anti-unravel arm attached to them. Even a light frost on the awning can upset the timing of this arm as it rotates. If the arm hits the side of the RV it can do serious damage to the awning or the coach itself. If the timing is affected, it may be necessary to brush the snow or frost from the edge of the awning as it rolls up.

Water and snow can accumulate on slide gaskets. This may prevent the slide from retracting. Sometimes pushing on the slide is just enough to assist the slide drive motor. If you know where the gasket is frozen, spraying RV antifreeze on the affected area may help.

Retracting the slide the night before you leave can save a lot of grief on a cold Colorado morning.

13) Hoses and Cables: Remember that after being in the cold for an extended period of time, hoses and cables are now stiff and some may be brittle. Use caution when removing and coiling hoses and cables.


Caveats:

Remember your situation is unique. THINK! Think about how the guide lines can be applied to your situation. I’ve been setting up in cold weather for ten years, and I still have a problems from time to time. Recently, it was 20 below and the water froze in my new RV. I needed to make a modification

Tiger run employees do not have the time and may not have the expertise to assist you with your set up problems. There are professional RV service personnel who will visit Breckenridge once or twice a week. You can get a list of these people at the office.

If you have a problem or need advice, contacting your coach manufacturer can be beneficial. If nothing else they may consider cold weather in future designs.

If this is your first time setting up in cold weather, observe how your neighbors are set up. This may give you some clues as to what to do, but bear in mind they may not know any more than you do.

[hinterland]

Dianne, that is a great post and so very detailed. I'm sure it has and will continue to help so many people with questions.

We are now on our 3rd winter, living full time in our Carriage Compass Fifth Wheel.

Many trials and errors and felt that we finally got all our ducks lined up. 2 Winters in Osoyoos and now we are in the mountains of southern British Columbia along the Boundary Country. Minus 23 one morning (celsius).

All our neighbours had frozen pipes, hoses, water lines, etc. We were feeling pretty great about ours not freezing......BUT...when we went to pull the gate valve on the grey tank..it would not budge! First time in 3 years. So we put a small heater under the skirting on 900 watts. After about 3 hours, the temp rose enough to pull the valve. Same thing happened the next day, only with the black tank. So, confused about this. After 2 winters without it happening, and then boom, it did.

But at least we have a method to take care of it.

We have some videos on our youtube channel about things to do to help your rig survive the cold if you are interested.
Getting through the Winter in your RV

[DianneOK]

It is the permanent faucet at the site

[Graycat]

DianneOK wrote:
Winter RV camping:


Connect the female end of the heated hose to the dog house faucet. After you verify that there are no leaks in the connections, wrap the tail of the heater tape around the hose and the faucet and cover with insulation. Plug the heater tape into the GFCI protected duplex outlet in the electrical connection panel.

Great post and my thanks to DianneOK. I just have one question (at the moment) and that is what is the dog house faucet?

[hinterland]

Hi Bruce,
Sounds like a great plan to insulate for the winter.

[BruceAllen]

Update:

I skirt the RV in with r6 foam insulation. I put an outdoor thermometer just under the waste dump gates so I can tell when it's freezing. I put a 1200 watt oil heater on top of two cinder blocks, then I wrapped the connection between the extension cord and heater plug with electrical tape so water can't get to it, I snaked the cords off of the ground and onto the underbelly of the RV, and I ran the extension cord through the pull out into the RV so I can turn it on and off with the plug whenever I want.

Not gunna say it's perfect or the best, but it's working out well for me so far. Thanks guys!

[hinterland]

BruceAllen wrote:

hinterland wrote:
Here is that video link. I hope you find some helpful tips there.
***Link Removed***

Wow, that's interesting. Someone used reflectix to skirt their rig? How did that turn out?

It turned out really well in Southern BC. Really they were just closing it in against the wind and not really adding much R value. Before they skirted, their black tank valve froze up, and after we got them skirted in, they didn't have any further issues.

[BruceAllen]

hinterland wrote:
Here is that video link. I hope you find some helpful tips there.
***Link Removed***

Wow, that's interesting. Someone used reflectix to skirt their rig? How did that turn out?

[hinterland]

Here is that video link. I hope you find some helpful tips there.
RV Skirting, Heaters and Waterlines

[hinterland]

Also, another idea, if you do use heaters like they do up in Canada, is to get a ceramic cube one, place it on concrete block or slab, and ensure it has a safety tip over shut off. You might get by with only turning it on at night. Keep a thermometer under there so you know when to turn it on. I'm in the process of uploading a new video on our channel showing some of the different heaters and skirting. Will check back and let you know about it.

[pianotuna]

Hi Bruce,

Only if you enclosed the tanks (valves and tubes) with Styrofoam sheets to box them in. Leave enough space for a 600 watt fan based heater and a mechanical thermostat. I use one that was intended for use as a car warmer. It is tube shaped.

BruceAllen wrote:
Thanks, the oil heater is a great tip! When you say enclosed, that would include wrapping the tanks in insulation?

[BruceAllen]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Bruce,

The blankets equipped with tube and elbow heaters may work down to about 20 F (-6.6 c). Below that, enclosed tanks are needed.

If you do skirt the safest heater to use will be the oil filled type.

BruceAllen wrote:
Is it true that the heater blankets don't work? Even if they're insulated?

Thanks, the oil heater is a great tip! When you say enclosed, that would include wrapping the tanks in insulation?

[pianotuna]

Hi Bruce,

The blankets equipped with tube and elbow heaters may work down to about 20 F (-6.6 c). Below that, enclosed tanks are needed.

If you do skirt the safest heater to use will be the oil filled type.

BruceAllen wrote:
Is it true that the heater blankets don't work? Even if they're insulated?

[BruceAllen]

hinterland wrote:
Why not just skirt your unit, and put a supplementary electric heater underneath when it's really cold. It will heat up that area. Also, if you turn on baggage compartment lights, they throw heat, enough to raise temps 3 degrees or more

Well, I'm just going over my options. I'd like to avoid skirting the vehicle. I live in Utah so I'm planning on it getting really cold for some months and the idea of putting a space heater underneath the travel trailer is a bit nerve-racking. They'd basically have to run all the time from late December to March. It's also rather expensive to skirt the vehicle and keep a space heater going. If I must, I must.

Is it true that the heater blankets don't work? Even if they're insulated?

[hinterland]

Why not just skirt your unit, and put a supplementary electric heater underneath when it's really cold. It will heat up that area. Also, if you turn on baggage compartment lights, they throw heat, enough to raise temps 3 degrees or more

[DanoT]

pianotuna wrote:
A very bad idea.

BruceAllen wrote:
I'm thinking about getting the heating pads but I was thinking, I have three tanks, grey, black, and galley. Each are about 20-30 gallons. What if I just put 15-20ft heat tape, taped to the bottom of the tanks, then wrapped the reflective insulation on top of it, do you think that would be sufficient?

Even the heating pads are a bad idea unless the outside temps NEVER get below 30F for more than a few minutes.

It might help to know where you plan on spending the winter but regardless, most RVs that are marketed as 4 season, are still going to have frozen pipes and or dump valves in true winter conditions. Best, safest thing to do is use a porta-potti and pack water in portable containers, heat water on the stove and sponge bathe or use a primitive portable shower, drain grey tank immediately after each use.