3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Guest]

another duplicate?!

[Guest]

delete duplicate post

[Guest]

Too bad our ears can't hear microvolts. 10dB SPL IS a doubling of volume (noise). You are correct about the dBV levels--but that's a different subject.

Guy

professor95 wrote:

+ On the (logarithmic) dB scale for spl 10dB is a doubling of loudness. A 3dB difference is a change in loudness

Not quite (good pun!)

One db up is a 26% increase. If zero dB is equal to 1,000 microvolts, an increase to +1 dB is 1,260 microvolts. Another 1 dB increase is 26% of 1,260 is 328. Add that to 1,260 and we have 1,580 microvolts. Multiply that by 26% and we get 410. Add that to 1,580 and the sum is 1,990 (rounded to 2,000 microvolts). 2,000 microvolts is DOUBLE 1,000 microvolts. Thus, an increase of +3dB is in fact double.

[Scruffy5]

Loud but not shocking,Too loud for campground or boondocking only?

[skram]

I got a chance to fire up my new Champion 3500W unit. Easy to start, loud but not shocking. My RV is still in storage so I could not try it on that. Easily ran a table saw @ 15 Amps though. I doubt the Nikota could do that.

[ZEKEDAWG]

Fishreed wrote:

The link you gave is for Powerwise generatorS that ARE REFURBISHED.
259.00 is a good price for brand new generators but is a joke for generators that are reburbished.

Sorry didn't see that when I found that link, I was just looking for a gas guage that was defective on mine. Thanks for pointing that out.

[TeamSlacker]

The brushes in my PowerWise were quite small, about 1/4" square like MrWiz figured. And yes, looks like the assembly showin in the PDF link above.
I know nothing about gen design, I work on computers for a living. 🙂

[EPenney]

This has got to be one of the most interesting threads that has been on the forum for a long long time. Very informative!

RadioNeal...your list of dB levels for different sounds was interesting, but you left off my sister-in-law from your list. I'm sure she is good for about 110 dB.:B

[fellow_traveler]

this is from Paul Cole, hope yo can see the dedication for the best generator 0n the market Fellow Traveler .

Hello Ron,
This forum has certainly got plenty of people scratching their heads
over this issue. Brush vs Brushless? What, Why, When, Where? What is
the reason Honda uses brushes in most of their generators? Why dont
they know better? After all, they have hundreds of engineers that are
supposed to have all the answers, right? Where is this all going to?
Does the layman really care as long as the generator does what it say
its supposed to! Where is all the service for the brushless
generators. I just happened to check into the possibilities and was
told there were 5 service locations in the Buffalo area! Anything else
will have to be by phone etc.
There is a lot of plagerizing of the Honda name in the advertisements
some of the companies are using. Honda takes this very seriously and
you can expect serious consequences for those they find out about.
Unfortunately, some of the generator companies wont be around next
year. A better question than the brushes are, whose going to fix my
$300 generator. I dont want to throw it away.(Im sure a lot of gen
companies wish you would!!) At Champion I want you to let everyone
know that , 1), We are an owner of the manufacturing firm with our
name on the building in China. 2) We are setting up over 300 service
centers and parts outlets throughout the USA, 3) The product we sell
is not sold by anyone else in the US , if it just happens to look like
ours, Its NOT the same! because its NOT THE SAME!!and that lookalike
is not made in our factory in China.
Bottom line is simple, "Business goes where its invited and stay where
its appreciated" At Champion Power Equipment, our customers will
dictate our direction and we will change if neccesary to maintain this
direction. At the price of our Generator, brush or brushless, just
wont make the difference.
All of the high tech responses on the forum wont fix any generator
without the availability of parts by the Mfg. and a service support
team.
I know you have an interest in muffler upgrades, and I want you to
realize that your interests are in my heart. I have some ideas and
will reply as soon as I can of my findings. This next week I will be
in Phoenix and Sacramento setting up new service centers. Lots of work
ahead of us, and development of new products up and coming soon. As
always, I appreciate the time you spend to inform me on the chat that
is happening. Unfortunately, I would be totally consumed, in order to
answer all of the conversation out there. My main concern is to be
ready to answer our buyers and respond to those seeking more
information on our products.
Have a great weekend,Paul

Paul Cole - Technical Engineer
Champion Power Equipment
1715 Business Center Dr.
Duarte, CA 91010
Phone no. (toll free) 877-338-0999
Cell no. 626-230-5248
Fax no. 626-932-1977

[RadioNeal]

professor95 wrote:

+ On the (logarithmic) dB scale for spl 10dB is a doubling of loudness. A 3dB difference is a change in loudness

Not quite (good pun!)

One db up is a 26% increase. If zero dB is equal to 1,000 microvolts, an increase to +1 dB is 1,260 microvolts. Another 1 dB increase is 26% of 1,260 is 328. Add that to 1,260 and we have 1,580 microvolts. Multiply that by 26% and we get 410. Add that to 1,580 and the sum is 1,990 (rounded to 2,000 microvolts). 2,000 microvolts is DOUBLE 1,000 microvolts. Thus, an increase of +3dB is in fact double.

I think we're talking about two different things here.

db is a measure of sound pressure or energy. 3db represents a doubling of sound pressure or sound engergy.

If I remember correctly, db spl is a different scale, attempting to measure the human ear's "preception" of sound or "Loudness" rather than actual sound energy or pressure.

Cheers!

[Fishreed]

ZEKEDAWG wrote:
I bought a Powerwise 3500, have yet to test it out.

Here is a direct link to the company selling the Powerwise. I am not affiliated, I just found this while looking for replacemnet parts. American Power Products 5525 Brooks ST Montclair, Ca 91763
http://www.americanpowerproducts.com/motorworks/index.php
If the link doesn't work just look for motorworks on the website and you will find the generators and all the infor.

Apperently you can buy direct. For $259. I don't know about shipping cost.

They have a whole list of parts available.

Sorry if this is a repost. Didn't want to scan 30 pages.

The link you gave is for Powerwise generatorS that ARE REFURBISHED.
259.00 is a good price for brand new generators but is a joke for generators that are reburbished.

[professor95]

+ On the (logarithmic) dB scale for spl 10dB is a doubling of loudness. A 3dB difference is a change in loudness

Not quite (good pun!)

One db up is a 26% increase. If zero dB is equal to 1,000 microvolts, an increase to +1 dB is 1,260 microvolts. Another 1 dB increase is 26% of 1,260 is 328. Add that to 1,260 and we have 1,580 microvolts. Multiply that by 26% and we get 410. Add that to 1,580 and the sum is 1,990 (rounded to 2,000 microvolts). 2,000 microvolts is DOUBLE 1,000 microvolts. Thus, an increase of +3dB is in fact double.

Yep, I missed the one on Paul Cole. I guess I should have looked at the senders profile before I "assumed" it was Paul generating the message. Hey, I'm an old man - I'm allowed to make mistakes every now and then!

And for Curly 2001 - yes the muffler is a spark arrestor type. The Jiang Dong units are both NPS and EPA certified (or so the importer's web site claims).

[Curly2001]

Another question please....do all or any of these Chinese generators have spark arrestor mufflers? Or are all of them of that design?
Pep Boys just received two Power Pro by Wen 3500 generators. They look very good but nowhere does it have the dba or any mention about mufflers being spark arrestors.
The lady at Pep Boys says these will sell out before the weekend. I did manage a call to the toll free number but got little tech help. If you are interested in it, it is 888-315-3080. They told me it is a new and improved ELIM model with customer requested updates. Not sure about that. He did not know the dba. It is $299.00. Thanks...Curly

[Smokeman]

Very interesting discussion on brushes in these generators. The more I look at these clones the more I think they are the same. I think Mr. Wizard is correct in that they will find small brushes in the Powerwise 3500. I think you will also find them in the ELM3000. Look at this picture from the eliminator 3000 parts manual. It is on page 33 of the manual, item # 4 called "Brush Assy". It looks like an easy to change piece, which is how Paul Cole of Champion Power Equipment described it on the champion units. Anyway here is the URL:

http://www.eliminternational.com/Partsbooks/eliminator/ELM3000-partsbook.pdf

These clones all appear to be using the same mufflers, fuel tanks etc but some call the engine 196cc and some call it 200cc.

[ZEKEDAWG]

I bought a Powerwise 3500, have yet to test it out.

Here is a direct link to the company selling the Powerwise. I am not affiliated, I just found this while looking for replacemnet parts. American Power Products 5525 Brooks ST Montclair, Ca 91763
http://www.americanpowerproducts.com/motorworks/index.php
If the link doesn't work just look for motorworks on the website and you will find the generators and all the infor.

Apperently you can buy direct. For $259. I don't know about shipping cost.

They have a whole list of parts available.

Sorry if this is a repost. Didn't want to scan 30 pages.