3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Krazyjohnny]

Where do I find the wiring diagram for this manuever. Also will I need to change the breaker?

[toprudder]

Krazyjohnny wrote:
Professor or someone with more knowledge on this than I please respond. Can you retain your 240 volt connection and get the full 120 V out of the 120 plug at the same time? In other words bridge the 120 volt plug and leave the 240 volt plug alone.

If I understand your question, you want to have full rated power at 120v by taking the two 120v windings and modifying the connection to run them in parallel. If that is what you want to do, then no. If you mean having full power at 120v but still have the 240 connector, yes, but you will only have one hot leg (120v) present in the 240v connector, the other hot leg would not be connected.

[Krazyjohnny]

Professor or someone with more knowledge on this than I please respond. Can you retain your 240 volt connection and get the full 120 V out of the 120 plug at the same time? In other words bridge the 120 volt plug and leave the 240 volt plug alone. Also has anyone attempted a soundproof enclosure to further the quietness of this genset?

[FulltimeDreamer]

I made my 30 Amp adapter today using the provided plug and a female 30 Amp RV pigtail. The 3000 GT generator from Pep Boys was able to run the 15,000 BTU AC, microwave, interior lights, inverter/charger and all the phantom power on TV, stereo, etc. The mirowave took a little longer to heat a cup of water, but we can always turn off the AC for a couple of minutes if we need to use the microwave. I recommend the UST 3000 GT as it already has the 25 AMP 120 Volt connection and requires no modifications. See my previous post on page 114 for a link to my website.

[Hatch-TX]

My PP5500 does not idle down. I noticed the nearby Honda only idled down when it had zero load. If running AC, at least my fan would constantly be on, so even if the PP5500 had the idle-down feature, it wouldn't do it. If you ran out of propane and wanted to run the gen just to keep your frig cold, it would always have a load on it because the electric heat strip in the frig is always on in elec mode. So I'm saying, if you're generator is idling down a lot and for long periods, maybe you need to shut the gen off?

No wiring mods are needed on the PP5500 generator to access full amps w/120 volts.

Noise: This is the quietest generator I've ever owned. [I guess I should also mention this is the first generator I've owned] I don't have a lot of experience with generators to offer much in the way of "it's as loud as..." but I can say that it seemed no louder than the Honda 5k unit that was used near me this past weekend. Engine and generator unit on my PP looked identical to the Honda.

If you expect to be using your generator around folks w/o gens (who might complain about the noise), the PowerPro 5500 is probably not your best choice. If performance/price are of higher importance than noise to you, the PP5500 is your generator.

[Krazyjohnny]

Well I got the PP5500 home and it would not idle down when it was not loaded like the rep had told me prior to my purchase. I took it back and got the PP3500. It is much quieter and easier to manuever as well. It does not idle down either and the voltage meter on it reads 240 v. What is the wiring modification that you speak of jimpcon? I would be interested to know about it. I have one 120V plug on this and one twist lock plug. and a DC 12 volt + and - connectors.

[Clark_W__Griswo]

We used the ELIM 3000 last weekend to provide power to a float in the local parade. The gen was in the back of the truck. When they passed us on the street all you could hear was the music playing and the smoke machine was puffing away! No gen noise.

Nobody could believe it was actually running. Lots of positive comments.

[jimpcon]

Hatch-TX wrote:
PowerPro 5500:

Gen ran for a continuous 14 hours from Saturday night to Sunday morning and still had fuel in the tank.

Just curious, how is the noise level on the PP 5500?? I was in PepBoys today just looking around and they had the PP5500 on display and noticed the muffler is different then the PP3500.

I have the PP 3500 and am VERY pleased with it. I just need to do the wiring mod, even though in past use I ran as a test, the A/C, Mic, refer and TV at the same time with no problems.

[Hatch-TX]

PowerPro 5500:

Easy to get all the power you need for a 30-amp connection. The two duplex outlets are on one 46 amp breaker, but each outlet only pulls a max of 23 amps. I built my own two-into-one 30-amp adapter and it worked beautifully Labor Day weekend. AC, microwave, frig, 40 amp converter, and lights all at the same time (sometimes).

Gen ran for a continuous 14 hours from Saturday night to Sunday morning and still had fuel in the tank.

[Krazyjohnny]

Well gang as in my typical fashion I got to the store and they had the 3500 and the 5500 Power Pro. The 3500 was $319 and the 5500 was $429. That seemed to be a no brainer to me so I bought the 13 HP, 5500 watt machine for just a little over $100 more. My thinking being that it would run at half load with my campers max required power and when I upgrade in a few years I will have enough then as well and can use it for other things as well. I will have to give you guys an update after I have used it.

[toprudder]

n7bsn wrote:
Most gensets, including these, develop the 60 cycle by regulating RPM, so the speed is the same regardless of load

Yes, most do, but the inverter technology gensets (like the Honda EU1000-3000, some of the Yamaha and others) do vary the engine rpm based on load. Saves on gas, noise, wear/tear.

[n7bsn]

Krazyjohnny wrote:
Do these gensets have the "smart throttle" technology built in to them? I have also spent some time listening to gensets. I have not had the chance to find one of these yet. I wonder if you couldn't make some sound dampening covers for them and attach them to the frame allowing some strategic venting for exhaust and intake?

Most gensets, including these, develop the 60 cycle by regulating RPM, so the speed is the same regardless of load

[Krazyjohnny]

Do these gensets have the "smart throttle" technology built in to them? I have also spent some time listening to gensets. I have not had the chance to find one of these yet. I wonder if you couldn't make some sound dampening covers for them and attach them to the frame allowing some strategic venting for exhaust and intake?

[palmtreefrb]

Kamphiker wrote:

FulltimeDreamer wrote:
I went to my local Pep Boys to purchase the Propower 3500 advertised in their sale paper. As it turned out they were selling a UST 3000 GT instead at the $319.00 price. The 3000 Gt looks to have the "Honda" knock-off engine and the "canned ham" muffler. It also has a 120 Volt duplex receptical rated @ 20 Amps each or a single twist on 3-prong outlet that is 120 Volts @ 25 Amps. This is exactly what I needed.

I did a test plugging my 30 Amp shoreline cable into a 20 Amp adapter into one of the 20 Amp recepticals and it ran my 15,000 BTU airconditioner with no problems. I did not try the microwave or other high draw appliances.

Tomorrow, I will construct a 30 Amp shoreline cable with the twist-on plug provided with the generator. I will then add additional loads to see what happens.

Here is a link to pictures of the generator:

http://www.geocities.com/fulltimedreamer2004/generator.html

FYI, Camping World has a 30 amp twist lock to RV 30 amp adpater in their store. I didn't see it on their online store.

[Kamphiker]

FulltimeDreamer wrote:
I went to my local Pep Boys to purchase the Propower 3500 advertised in their sale paper. As it turned out they were selling a UST 3000 GT instead at the $319.00 price. The 3000 Gt looks to have the "Honda" knock-off engine and the "canned ham" muffler. It also has a 120 Volt duplex receptical rated @ 20 Amps each or a single twist on 3-prong outlet that is 120 Volts @ 25 Amps. This is exactly what I needed.

I did a test plugging my 30 Amp shoreline cable into a 20 Amp adapter into one of the 20 Amp recepticals and it ran my 15,000 BTU airconditioner with no problems. I did not try the microwave or other high draw appliances.

Tomorrow, I will construct a 30 Amp shoreline cable with the twist-on plug provided with the generator. I will then add additional loads to see what happens.

Here is a link to pictures of the generator:

http://www.geocities.com/fulltimedreamer2004/generator.html
[/quote




Thats a good looking Gen. I wonder if it's made by the same COmpany as the Power Pro ?

It sure would be nice to Know Who Mfg. What Generators. I'm sure there will be interchangable parts and when it come time to do replacement of parts we would have more options in finding them.