3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Barton_Family]

Horizon170 wrote:
I have read most of the pages but don't recall any Chinese knock off of the Honda EU2000 generator mentioned. A friend loaned me his Honda EU2000 and it was so quiet sitting on my bumper rack that I could hardly hear if from the inside of my Van with the A/C running.
I'm trying to avoid the $800 plus price for a Honda and I don't need over 2K watts.
Thanks in advance,

Try this link.

Still kind of high, but may be what you are looking for. There are many other dealers around that might have better pricing. Not quite and quiet as a Honda, but based on the same technology. The Honda 2000 watt unit is rated at 59dB and the Kipor is 61dB. Not sure where your $800 price came from for the Honda. The 2000 watt units I have seen are over $1000 new. Maybe you were looking at a used model. I just bought one of the knockoff 3300 watt units and I wish now I would have just bit the ol' bullet and gotten the Kipor 3500 watt unit. Much more money, but no apologies needed to my neighbors nor having to carry around a clunky sound barrier that may not be enough anyway. If noise output really makes a difference to you, I'd save my pennies and go for the Kipor or a good used Honda. I wish I had done that now. I now have a Generac 4000XL with only a few hours on it and a brand new Amico 3300 that are both too loud for the places I go. I hope this helps.

[Horizon170]

I have read most of the pages but don't recall any Chinese knock off of the Honda EU2000 generator mentioned. A friend loaned me his Honda EU2000 and it was so quiet sitting on my bumper rack that I could hardly hear if from the inside of my Van with the A/C running.
I'm trying to avoid the $800 plus price for a Honda and I don't need over 2K watts.
Thanks in advance,

[DaveVa78Chiefta]

While my ELIM3000 did last a fairly good while, it has developed an internal problem (binding up). I am going to have to tear the unit down to determine what the problem is. It is not the starter portion. Anyone know how the generator portion is removed from the engine section? Never torn a generator down before. I will say I had been running it around 25-30hrs/week for about 10-12 weeks so I did like a lot of milage out of it.

Dave

[catalina30]

Krazyjohnny wrote:
allpraisebob,

I went to Home depot last night to pick up a DPDT switch to do the conversion on my PP3500 and all they had was a 20amp/120volt version. I don't want to end up welding this thing shut should I draw the full 29 amps through it. Any suggestions on if this thing would work or should I shop a little more?

Please note that the 20amp rateing is for break current, using the switch without a load should not harm the switch.

Kevin
The Right Lane

[Barton_Family]

catalina30 wrote:
I desided after studying the honda and Kipor, that using the tube frame for an enclosure frame would work very well, I installed my pannels to this frame and it works out fine without making a large inclosure to deaden the noise. I have run a couple of tanks thru the genset running the A/C on the trailer all the time. outside temp in the 90's there was no real temp diffence of the genset during this time. I don't have to move anything to start the genset because I have cut a hole where the recoil is to allow air to flow fully. although I did make a panel for the front of the hole, there is no difference in noise level with it in place, so it is now in the trash.

Kevin,
Thanks for this info. Do you have pictures you can post as to what you did or at least the final product after fastening the panels to your genset. I am trying to devise a barrier now and I would much rather fasten it to the genset as opposed to carrying a bunch of stuff around.
Thanks!
Ric

[catalina30]

Krazyjohnny wrote:
I was wondering what type of insulation Honda uses on their EU3000is and how much air flow is used.

Johnny,
can't answer for the EU3000 but the 1000 has no insulation. There may be vents on the bottom of the set, for intake but the only vents visable are at the mufler of the unit. the Kipor 1000 is the same way. the recoil starter is mid unit, this would indicate to me that the gen head is mounted to the starter end of the engine. This makes sense as any air flow would be over the muffler and out. I don't know how many fans one needs to do a Job. but for noise reduction one would think the fewer the better, I believe Honda desided that too. I find that most gensets have the air ducted to the middle of the unit, part from the engine fan and part from the head. I have ducted this air flow over and out at the muffler shield.

I remember the fiberglass ducting from years ago, my dad was an A/C man, I am glad they still make it, and will replace my ceiling tile from home depot with it. I have noticed that noise is preception, it seems when I took my laptop outside to record sound levels to post on the net, I could not tell any difference on the recording with or without the pannels, but to my ear there is a notable diffence in annoying noise. this could be because of auto leveling in the software of the puter, but I would guess not. I desided after studying the honda and Kipor, that using the tube frame for an enclosure frame would work very well, I installed my pannels to this frame and it works out fine without making a large inclosure to deaden the noise. I have run a couple of tanks thru the genset running the A/C on the trailer all the time. outside temp in the 90's there was no real temp diffence of the genset during this time. I don't have to move anything to start the genset because I have cut a hole where the recoil is to allow air to flow fully. although I did make a panel for the front of the hole, there is no difference in noise level with it in place, so it is now in the trash. the air intake filter seems to produce some noise, honda fixed that problem by making a long course for the air to travel in there 1000.

My use of this genset is more for on the road, seems rest stops and wallyworld parking lots don't seem to have noise restrictions. I will maybe run the set durring the day, but at night I have desided to limit my use to an inverter and 12v use. I can't hear my genset run when I am inside the RV thanks to the extra work I did, but those outside, less fortunate than I, that have tents and tenttrailers (please note, I understand that most tenttrailers cost more than my rig)could. I would guess that they could here my A/C running and be bothered by it. If I want the comfort of A/C when I am stopped I will use a site with electric hookups. I like my quiet as does everybody else, that is why I am looking to metafuel in the future, and I have no idea when that future will be. So today I will be happy to use what is there.

Kevin
The Right Lane

P.S. to those who have tried to get ahold of me. My internet service was making it not worth the effort to get on, if you still want to ask your questions, ask away, as I now have wireless broad band and will be on more often. and the response about GFCI's, if you load the circuit with more than 20A load you will find that the braker trips, not the GFCI.

[Gulfcoast]

Hey BahamaBoy...

I know that 2" ductboard really grabs the sound waves.

A nice generator shed that I have found is a small Rubbermaid storage shed from Lowe's or Home Depot with a large fan in one end, and a air intake louver in the opposite end.

NOTE: The fan is about 1400 CFM, not 50 cfm like you mentioned. You need ALOTS of airflow to cool a hot generator in an enclosure.

Here's a link... (I can't make it clickable yet)

http://www.nooutage.com/powershelterkitii.htm

Good luck

[Krazyjohnny]

I hope I have found the golden nugget to my noise reduction. My neighbor up the street does alot of big productions. He is going to get me a "road box" with casters on it and foam insulation in side of it. I plan to duct it for intake air and exhaust.

[Bahamaboy]

Hi All I am new here and am not a RVer but found this site while doing reasearch into soundproofing a ELM3000 While surfing around the net i found several ways to build a box to reduce the noise but i am concerned with the heat buildup inside the box so was going to install 2 50CUFT blowers to try to keep the generator cool the question i have is would it be more effictive using the blowers to draw in cool air and directing the airflow at spacific parts of the ELM3000 (If so where) or to use the blowers as exhaust at the top of the enclosure to suck out the hot air?

BTW what i have found to use for the soundproofing material is 1 inch thick Fiberglass Duct Board it is very heat resistant lightweight and inexpensive (found at most AC supply houses) I have put a double layer (2 inch) together with the foil side of each forming the inside and outside walls of the box with a 1/8 thich bit of Panneing sandwiched inbetween the two layers to help stiffen the duct board I sit the generator on a double layer of thick Shag Carpet and the box is raised off the ground by 1 inch so the air can get in and vent the exhaust through a bit of electrical conduit through a hole in the side of the box this realy quiets the unit but as i said i feel it neds some forced air to help with the heat issue.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Bahamaboy

[Kamphiker]

There are specialty foams for sound and vibration insulation

Here are a few links

Novibes noise control

Product informationProduct Data sheet

[Barton_Family]

Thanks Professor! Once I figure out what you said, I will let you know if it answered my question or not 🙂

KrazyJohnny, I think the foil against the stiff foam reflects more sound than it absorbs due to the smooth metal surface. I spent about an hour and Home Depot Thursday night just looking at insulation of various types, then cork tiles and so on. I was tempted by the 2" think pink Owens Corning stuff. Pretty bulky to work with. I think I am going to try using a 1/4" sheet of plywood, with a lining of 1/2" pink foam insulation and then using an elbow to direct the exhaust either up or towards the front of the genset where the 3 panel barrier I am going to make will be open. I think that would move the heat source away from the genset enough. I still worry about the heat generated from the box in a box setup. If a sheet of OSB roof decking deaded a lot of sound just leaning it against the generator, I have to believe that wood backed foam will do better. I heard a friends Honda EU3000 tonight. NO CHANCE IN HECK this little generator I bought will be that quiet no matter what I do to it. But I am still going to try!

[Krazyjohnny]

I did a quick little experiment with my PP3500 on making a soundproof enclosure. I bought a 3/4" sheet of 4' x 8' foil backed insulation board form Home depot. I cut it up to do the box inside a box treatment and found it to help some. I then added some carpet around the Recoil starter end of the generator and that really made a difference. I don't think the insulation bourd is good at absorbing sound due to its stiffness(rigidity).

[professor95]

As for the 0 volts between the 2 hot sides of the outlets, would this indicate they are not tied together as some other units seem to be? I think I just need to take the cover off and start tracing wires.

If you and putting one probe of your AC voltmeter in the short slot of the upper section of a duplex outlet, and the other probe into the short slot of the lower section of a duplex outlet, and are getting a zero voltage reading, both will be connected to the same point on the stator. But, if you get a reading of 240 volts by making the same test, then the outlets are connected to opposite ends of the stator (360 degrees apart).

The first, or zero volt reading, indicates that:
1. Each 180 degrees of the stator winding are in parallel,
2. or the entire outlet is wired to only one set of stator windings,

If you are getting a 240 volt reading between the two short slots it indicates the stator windings are in series and use a center tap to provide 120 volts for each 180 degrees of rotation.

If I didn't answer your question the way you wanted, shoot it to me again and I will give it another try.

[LLeopold]

I was digging around the web, and found these two designs. I may go for one of them, or keep looking.

Soundproofing a Generator
Soundproofing America

[bob_b1]

I have just constructed a box made out of those 2'x4' ceiling tiles. The tiles were $2.59 a piece and required three of them. One 2'x4' tile runs across the back of the generator. I then cut a 2'x4' tile in half for each side of the generator. The two 2'x2' side pieces where hinged to the back 2'x4' piece to make a free-standing three-sided box. The remaining 2'x4' piece will be either place over the top of the three-sided box OR placed in the front of the generator. The side of each piece was duct-taped to insure that it wouldn't flake away on the sides. Some thin wood was glued to the back of each piece to give the flimsy tiles some structural support.

For the exhaust, I used a 3/4" conduit pipe that has a soft 90 degree bend. I can direct the exhaust out the front or out the top. I didn't want the exhaust hitting the tiles directly.

My preliminary results were positive, but I'm really testing it out this weekend.