3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[TubaPete]

Sonic1954 wrote:


I do have backup power for the house as well. It is a 1980 Onan 5kw. It is not hard wired in but I have a pigtail made that will plug into my 30 amp dryer outlet. I trip the main going to the pole, trip the dryer circuit off, fire up the onan for a short warmup and then turn the dry circuit back on.

You might want to check this. I believe that it is potentially dangerous based on what I have read in other posts. Tripping the main does not disconnect the neutral in most household circuits. Since these little benerators don't treat neutral the same as the line current coming into your house, you could be backfeeding a voltage greater than zero into the line.

I'm sure somebody out there will correct me if I'm wrong.

[professor95]

I had no idea that gen was an Elim. Says 4,000 watt so I assumed it was something else.

I believe the unit is made by Jiang Dong. Same outfit that builds the ELM.

As for the concern over the switch and 120/240, I think that is over concern. Whey you flip the switch it also swaps outlets. If you are plugged into the 120 duplex outlet, all that would happen is the loss of power.

Gotta go, Nancy and I are heading for Kitty Hawk this weekend. Gads, I hate to watch that gas gauge drop!!!!

Randy

[skipnchar]

I also received one of those flyers and they have a sale in Topeka going on this weekend. I had no idea that gen was an Elim. Says 4,000 watt so I assumed it was something else.

I think I'd prefer a 120 volt only model. I'm just a little concerned that someone walking by my gen could brush against the AC select switch and send 220 volts through my trailer. I'm considering attaching some sort of cover over the switch to prevent that.

[sidewindr]

Man, i just feel sorry for the guys that just discovered this post, will now have to read 123 pages. Ouch.

[professor95]

I received a sales flyer from Homier Tools in the mail today.

They have their version of the ELM3000L on sale for $199.00. I checked their web site, and it is still listed there for $299.00. This should be a 120 volt only unit with full wattage to one outlet. Also has 12 VDC out.

Just out of curiosity, I keyed in my zip code to see what shipping would be. It came up $49.00. Actually, $249.00 isn't a bad price for a delivered unit!

I guess if you were to order one, it would be best to call them and cite the ad price.

A copy of the sales ad is below.



Randy

[skipnchar]

Wow! My eyeballs hurt after reading (most) of the posts on this thread. Great information and lots of help. My Elm 3000 arrived yesterday but I didn't get a chance to play with it until this morning. He has no problem running both my microwave and 13,500 BTW AC at the same time and only "flinches" slightly as they are applied to the load. I was just little nervous seeing only 110 volts on my Kill-a-watt but after starting everything it'a still reading 108 volts so I guess I'm OK. My old Coleman started out at 125 volts and when full load was applied it would drop to around 100.

The Elm is definitely a little quieter than the Coleman even though about 90% of the time the Coleman was only charging the battery. Noise level is about the same with a big load on the Elm.

I'm happy so far and now we'll be seeing how well it holds up. Thanks to everyone for all the work done on this thread. Skip

[hgarraway]

subcamper wrote:
Last weekend, while camping, the generator stopped putting out voltage.

Mine (ELM3000) has done this twice. The first time it was the capacitor behind the right side of the control panel. The connector was not tight and arced away at the capacitor lug. After fixing that the voltage switch came apart. in both cases the engine ran fine but no voltage. I hope you can fix it. Seems the quality control problems on mine were isolated to the control panel.

[toprudder]

subcamper wrote:
I talked to John at Elim (he's the rep that posted here before being deleted) and the warranty only covers the engine part, not the generator. Also, there aren't any schematics available or troubleshooting charts, which is the reason they are going to a new vendor for generators. I am now in the process of troubleshooting the generator.

They sold a "Generator", but the warranty doesn't cover the "Generator". Hmmm.:?

As so many people here have said, "If it blows up, just buy a new one. Still cheaper than a Honda." At least one in three should work. :B

[subcamper]

I bought an ELM3000 back about 5 months or so when they were still available at PEP Boys. I have used it in the last 2 months for a total running time of about 30 hours. Last weekend, while camping, the generator stopped putting out voltage. The engine ran fine. I talked to John at Elim (he's the rep that posted here before being deleted) and the warranty only covers the engine part, not the generator. Also, there aren't any schematics available or troubleshooting charts, which is the reason they are going to a new vendor for generators. I am now in the process of troubleshooting the generator. It looks like the voltage regulation in the problem, as both output windings have about 11 volts on them. It's a brushless design with a capacitor used to regulate the voltage. Looks like the self-excitation coils may have gone bad , there are very few parts (a few coils and a capacitor) so hopefully I can isolate the problem to a part. Even more of a worry is if I can get the part. I don't really want to scrap a new generator.

Steve

[Sonic1954]

Actually the only time I had metal particals in the oil was on the first oil change that I did after only 12 hours of operation. These units are made in China. They are probably not made in the cleanest enviroments plus they have been shipped by a slow boat across a lot of salt water. A short run on the first oil change on ANY engine made overseas is a good idea. I did the same thing on my Honda's (they recomended 25 hours and the 100 hours after that. I cut those times in half.) These are Honda engine clones. I did not even read the book that came with it for recomended oil change interval but it should be rated for about 100 hours on an oil change but I would recommend changing it every 48 hours. 100 hours is a lot of run time 1/2 quart of unfiltered oil.

I did a good going over before I started the engine for the first time with my 10mm wrench and checked everything I could get to. A couple were a bit on the loose side. The air filter assembly was completely missing one bolt that I replaced before starting it up. Also oiled up the foam air filter. It seemed dry when I got it. No oil on the air filer and it will not stop the damaging dust.

Keep the oil changed and the air filter clean, and these little gen sets should last quite a while. That is the key to any small engine including your lawn mower!

Going to put on an additional 48 hours on the Champion this weekend Loaning it to a trusted friend!)

I do have backup power for the house as well. It is a 1980 Onan 5kw. It is not hard wired in but I have a pigtail made that will plug into my 30 amp dryer outlet. I trip the main going to the pole, trip the dryer circuit off, fire up the onan for a short warmup and then turn the dry circuit back on. This old Onan will burn about 3/4 gallon per hour. I have a 2 day supply of fuel on hand most of the time.

One good thing the professer95 has done is gone to propane. It does not go old in the storage tank. I have to swap out my fuel every 6 months or so. I just burn it in the car and go fill the cans back up. I also add fuel stabelizer to help keep the fuel from going bad real quick.

[presp]

Sonic1954 - Thanks for the 'real world' user experience.
(btw: did the metal particulate seem to decrease after you made that many oil changes?)
...

professor95 - Thanks for the "Story time" - interesting.
You wrote:
"One contributor has been running his ELM3000 24 hours a day for almost three weeks and reports that it is still going strong. He did shut it off once to change the oil in the engine."

Wow, over 200 hours on the same oil! (+10x the recommended interval)
I'll bet that engine is well 'worn out' before it sees 1000 hrs.


You wrote:
"I did not know it at the time, but a screw that held the choke butterfly in place at the throat of the carburetor had vibrated out and was sucked into the engine. It broke the intake valve."

Yep, a quick 'pre-flight' on machinery can prevent many a disaster.
Good lesson to learn.. (wonder why that lever feels loose? best to check it before running)


Pres

[professor95]

It's Story Time......

Over the past few days I have received several messages from folks who have visited this forum and as a result of the discussions from all of the contributors, purchased a generator for their home or RV. All of the messages I have received have been from folks who were effected by hurricane Katrina and lost power. I am sure there are many more who have not shared their recent experiences.

One contributor has been running his ELM3000 24 hours a day for almost three weeks and reports that it is still going strong. He did shut it off once to change the oil in the engine.

I am extremely glad that our discussions and sharing have in some way served to reduce the discomfort of others by helping them to make an informed decision on the choice of a generator.

Personally, I could not imagine not having a back-up power source at my rural Virginia location. When Isabel came through 2 years ago, I was on generator power for 15 days. If it were not for the generator, we would have suffered considerable water damage (no sump pump), loss of a full season of frozen garden vegetables in the freezer and great inconveniences due to no potable water, etc. Last year, tropical storm Gaston left us without power for about a week. Again, the generator came to the rescue. Prior to these two storms, we have endured many powerless nights from ice storms by having the generator to keep the oil furnace running when it was 20 degrees outside.

I now have three generators. The ELM3000, my 15 year old Kawasaki 1400 and a 9 year old Generac 5500. The Generac is my main power back-up source for the house and is wired through a transfer switch to a sub panel feeding what I call critical circuits (sump pump, freezer, frig, furnace, microwave, TV, some lighting). The Generac was consuming between 8-12 gallons of gasoline per day during the power outage from Isabel (depending on load and run time). This adds up in a hurry. Fortunately, I had a good fuel stock on hand and was able to draw fuel from my boat tanks to supplement the cause. Still, it was problematic to keep the thirsty beast happy. I have since ordered the propane conversion kit from USCarb for the 10HP Briggs & Stratton engine on the Generac so that I can draw from a 300 gallon underground propane tank that supplies two gas fireplace inserts in our home. I am hoping this will negate the problems of stockpiling large qualities of gasoline for extended use during major power outages.

The first generator I ever owned was one I assembled from available parts. I had acquired a used 2,000 watt AC generator head designed to be mounted under the hood of a car or truck and driven by a fan belt from the vehicle's engine. I mounted this generator on a stout wooden base and powered it from a 5HP gasoline engine I removed from an old rototiller. It worked pretty good for what it was and I was extremely proud of my creation - especially since it had only cost me a fraction of what a new commercial unit would have. During the winter of 1978, we had a horrific ice storm that knocked out power all over the area. But, I said to my wife, "don't worry, I have a generator!". I pulled it out of the shed, started it up and plugged in a few extension cords run to my living room and kitchen and settled back in my Lazy-Boy recliner to watch some TV, all the time thinking how great this was and gloating over the fact that my neighbors did not have a back-up generator. About that time the generator sputtered and abruptly quit. When I tried to restart the engine, I discovered that it had no compression. I did not know it at the time, but a screw that held the choke butterfly in place at the throat of the carburetor had vibrated out and was sucked into the engine. It broke the intake valve. My pride quickly turned to dismay, and we suffered through 5 long, cold days and nights with only a fireplace to give us light and keep us warm. It was at that point that I decided "NEVER AGAIN" and bought my first commercial ready-made generator, a 2,500 watt Sears unit with a 6 HP engine.

Sorry to ramble so much with the story, but us old(er) folks occasionally do that......

[Sonic1954]

In an earlier post, someone asked about the variable speeds of the Honda and made the statement that they only slowed at NO load. This is not correct. They truly do speed up as the load increases and they slow back down as the load decreases. You may not notice the increments because you are using the A/C that uses a lot of electricity and it speeds up a lot to run it. When the compressor kicks off, it goes to fan only, it will slow down quite a bit. If you turn the fan off, it will slow further. Now start turning off the other electrical things in the the camper (including the refrigerator) and hear it slow to a true idle.

This may have been off topic a bit but I did have to defend my dear Inverter Honda's!

[Sonic1954]

In an earlier post, I put up a couple of pictures of my Champion 3500. It was quite easy to modify and there have been some excellent posts showing the modifications in detail.

I have 2 Honda's that I noramally use but I wanted to test the Champion. I have put over 400 hours on the little genset with only minor problems.

I did rewire the champion generator and have had great success. I literally live in my camper on oil well sites here in west Texas. I rely on my Honda's but to test out the Champion, I ran it for 2 weeks straight, shutting it down every 48 hours to change the oil. It ran just fine and did a good job of pulling the 13500 BTU A/C. It would also run the microwave in the mornings when the a/c was not working real hard but in the heat of the day, the choice was microwave or A/C.

I did the full conversion. I completely eliminated the 220 v option. I took the 220 volt plug off the gen set and with the help of my deremil tool, mounted a 30 amp camper plug in it's place.

I am back to using my Honda's but the Champion is still with me as a backup generator and a loner to people who come to location with no power supply. I also use it to power 3000 watts of lights at night occassionally as well. It carries the load quite well. I can get about 9 - 11 hours on a tank of gas depending on the load.

One problem that I did have with the electricity was when the load is light, both my UPS's on my electronic packages complain about bad power. (one ups on the DTV/TV package and one ups on my computer / sat internet package) When the gen has a moderate to heavy load, the UPS is just fine. Voltate with light load is 124 volts. It drops to about 112 with a very heavy load.

The only problem I have with the gen set is the gas cap seals TOO good. I have to unscrew the lid so the tank can breath. If I do not open the cap, it will draw a vacuum on the tank and run out of gas in the carburator.

The little gen set now has over 400 hours on it in 90 - 105 degree heat. (I use staight 30 weight for those conditions) I have not had any problems with the plug fouling. I have not pulled the breather hose off the air filter to see how much oil is being blown around but it is not enough that I have to add any oil between the 48 hour oil changes.

[Sonic1954]

Krazyjohnny wrote:
I was wondering what type of insulation Honda uses on their EU3000is and how much air flow is used.

lleopold... I have got to see your enclosure. I am thinking of using some closed cell vinyl nitrile foam insulation that is foil backed on one side and attaching it to a diamond plate aluminum box that is hinged where I can gain access to the generator. Yes I intend to vent it for exhaust and intake air.

I have 2 Honda 3000's. They do have a thin insulation inside the panel that is about 1/4 inch thick. They move a LOT of air. It is all discharged around the muffler. That helps keep the muffler cooler as well.