3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[kneisl1]

Ok thanks Professor now I understand. Im want to do a parallel connection of my PowerPro 2200 generator so I can get 15 amps at 120 v. But I know very little about this sort of thing and dont want to fry my lovely little generator! So I need to ask a lot of questions! Please excuse me if dont seem to know what this is all about because I DONT!
Another question I have is: This 120/240v generator comes with a 10 amp circuit breaker. Since placing the coils in parallel will enable it to generate 15 amps at 120v, wont it be necessary to replace the 10 amp breakeer with a 15 amp (or greater?) Thanks!

[mokanmikey]

AAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHH !!!!!

Why do I keep a subscription to this post?? :? I got my gen weeks ago and it works fine for me and I have no questions or a lot to add here.

Why do I keep coming back???

I guess it's because I have so much time spent reading this post that I have to know how it ends!

See you all tomorrow!

Another junkie!

[kneisl1]

This from Professor 95 on 3/17/05:

"If you combine two generator windings in parallel the current will be the sum of the two windings but the voltage will not increase. Combining in parallel also requires them to be in phase to work properly."

The question I have is, are the two windings everyone is hooking up in parallel in these 120/240 volt generators in phase and how do you know?

[professor95]

What does the term "out of phase" mean? I've heard it said you cant connect the two windings in a 120/240 volt generator together in parallel to make a 120 volt generator because the coils are out of phase. Can anyone enlighten me?

That one has been causing a lot of confusion.

All of these little generators are single phase AC units, not multiple phase as some have falsely assumed from the description you reference. When you center tap a coil, in this case the stator (stationary part) on the generator, each half of the center tapped coil will have a 180 degree phase differential. This 180 degrees accounts for 1/2 of a full 360 degree revolution. In the parallel configuration mode many folks have been rewiring them to, these two halves will have the same phase relationship with respect to voltage and current. Some folks have mistakenly assumed they can just hook two separate 120 volt outlets together on a 240/120 volt AC generator and get double the current at 120 volts. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

To really understand all of the bigger picture, you need to dig deeper into alternating current systems theory and how voltage and current relate to each other in this type of inductive circuit.

I wrote a rather lengthy explanation for this forum back on 5/06/05 at 1:02 p.m. and even posted some pictures of scope waveforms to show what was happening. You may want to click on my "view profile" to the left and then select "view posts" and find the article with that date and time for more info.

[hrdtoget1]

sounds like the powerpro 3500 is the way to go once you re-wire it.... problem is I dont think they sell those here in california... a smog thing i think or something, dam!!!

[hrdtoget1]

Barton Family wrote:

hrdtoget1 wrote:
I'm thinking about buying this one... My question is, will it run my AC unit ok and should I be using the twist lock connection insted of the regular 110 outlet.... thanks in advance!!! check it out here??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PREMIUM-6-5-HP-3000-3300-WATT-240V-GENERATOR-WARRANTY_W0QQitemZ4577124910QQcategoryZ26455QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I received one of these 2 weeks ago. I ran it this weekend for about an hour or so with the AC on the camper and it worked fine for me. Here is the catch, my AC is only 7100 BTU because it's a Lance truck camper that uses a Coleman Mini-Mach. I have no idea if it will run the 13,500 or 15,000 BTU units. I bought an Ammeter and will try to see what the output is at the 120 and the 220 volt sides and will post when I get a chance. They say this is a 65 dB unit but it is darn near as loud at load as my Generac 4000XL 73dB unit is. This is the place I bought mine from :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4402732592&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT

Loud is not good, thanks for the help!!!

[bob_b1]

I took back my PowerPro 2200-watt and got a PowerPro 3500-watt. I rewired it to produce all the wattage out one side of the twist-lock plug and the standard outlet. It works great. Everything runs. One thing that I noticed about the 3500 watt is that it has screw terminals for the connections (easier to convert) versus the 2200 watt PowerPro which has snap connector (harder to convert).

Regarding whose conversion was the easiest: Wyatt-S has the simplest conversion. His conversion means that you will not be able to run all of the 240V twistlock because now ALL of the watts run at 120V using only half of the twistlock. This is fine by me. I never need anything more than 120 volts anyway.

[kneisl1]

What does the term "out of phase" mean? Ive heard it said you cant connect the two windings in a 120/240 volt generator togetheer in parallel to make a 120 volt generator because the coils are out of phase. Can anyone enlighten me?
My generator is 1800 watts and has a 10 amp breaker.(120/240 volt) Wouldnt I need a 15 amp breaker if I converted it to 120 v only?
One last question. Can the 12v 8.3 amp battery charging circuit be converted to 120v AC by unplugging the rectifier and running the wires from the generator to a 120v socket?
Thanks!

[Hatch-TX]

lag1996 wrote:
So if i brought the powerpro 3500 and just pluged my tralier into it i would only be getting 25 amps out of it? and i need at least 30amps for the ac? sorry im realy confused.

My personal experience is that 20 amps is more than enough for [many models of] rooftop AC [including mine for sure]. Problems CAN arise when you try to operate anything else WITH the AC.

[lag1996]

So if i brought the powerpro 3500 and just pluged my tralier into it i would only be getting 25 amps out of it? and i need at least 30amps for the ac? sorry im realy confused.

[allstar59]

I picked up a powerpro 3500 a few weeks ago but haven't modified it yet.
I've seen the mod from allpraisebob but not the mod from the professor, are they the same ?

[Sonic1954]

hrdtoget1 wrote:
this is so much to read and so confusing... simple question for you that know.... I'm thinking about buying this one... My question is, will it run my AC unit ok and should I be using the twist lock connection insted of the regular 110 outlet.... thanks in advance!!! check it out here??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PREMIUM-6-5-HP-3000-3300-WATT-240V-GENERATOR-WARRANTY_W0QQitemZ4577124910QQcategoryZ26455QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This one will NOT work until you rewire it so you get all the 3000 watts to go to the 110 instead of it being split up for 220 volts

[suninfla]

I purchased a PepBoys PowerPro 3500 today for $300+tax after reading many post's.

The generator was in excellent condition without scratches or missing parts. All screws and bolts were snug. The manual was well written and informative.

I have no need for 240v so I removed the generator cover and found the two red wires many post's spoke of. I removed them from their post and connected the red wire comming from the pannel harness to the post holding the blue wires. I took the remaining red wire comming from inside the generator and connected this wire to the post holding the brown wires. The modification to full power at 120v on both panel receptacles was now accomplished. Total time for modification after cover removal, two minutes. The PowerPro 3500 is now wired for 120v 25amps at both recepticals as per the instructions from the Professor.

The motor was filled with 10/30 Mobil One, and the gas tank filled.
The engine fired on the first pull. I immediately noticed the unit was relatively quiet for a generator, and exhaust noise was exceptionally low. The remaining noise came from the moving mechanical parts.

I ran the new engine for 10 minutes, then I applied a 1500w load to the 120v outlet through a ceramic heator. 1500w load did not effect the PowerPro at all. I broke the engine in for about 1 hour at 50% load, then I connected an additional heator with selectable 750w / 1500w. The wattage was increased to 2250w without incident. I ran the gen for 30 minutes, then the load was increased to 3000w. I could now hear the engine taking the load as the noise level increased slightly. I only held this level for a few minutes before backing down the gen to 1500w. This is about where the unit will spend most of it's time, so I took a frequency measurement. The unit was operating at 62HZ so the engine spead was reduced till 60HZ was achieved. Here are the results at both the 120v 20amp standard receptacle, and the 120v 30amp twist lock. All results are aproximate but very close. (Both receptacles were thoroughly tested.)

No load- 123.2v, 62.0HZ
750w load, 122v, 60.7HZ
1500w load, 117.7v, 60.2HZ
2250w load, 117.2v, 59.6HZ
3000w load, 113.8v, 58.3HZ

Impression; This unit is a compact mature design, or an exceptionally nice clone. For $300 the PowePro 3500 is hard to beat. The engine never smoked or misbehaved in any way for the few hours it ran. At shutdown the oil level was still full and clean, and no leaks were visable. Overall I was exceptionally pleased with the performance and design of this unit. You can only get so much for $300, and for this price the PowerPro 3500 is a steal.

I hope you find my reaseach helpfull.

Scott

[Barton_Family]

kneisl1 wrote:
hardtoget - I think you do not want a 220 volt generator if you want to run high amp 120v appplicances. Look instead for a generator with only 120v outlets on it. The generator you list seems to be a 220 volt model.

The Amico 3300 is 220v at 15A and 120v at 30A
Description:

STANDARD SPECIFICATION:

Continuous Output: 3000 Watt

Maximum Output: 3300 Watt

Engine: 6.7 HP, 4 Strokes OHV Motor, Air-cooled

Starting Method: Recoil Start

Displacement: 200cc

Voltage / Frequency: 120V / 240V 60Hz

Run Speed: 3600rpm

AC Current: 120V/30Amps & 240V/15Amps

DC Current: 12V/8.3 Amps

Fuel Tank Capacity: 3.25 Gallon

Fuel Consumption: 0.4 Gallon /h

Noise Level: 65 decibels (7m)

Approximate Run Time: 12 Hours

Measurements: 22”(L) x 18”(W) x 18.5”(H)

Weight: 99 Lbs/pc

U.S EPA Certificate

Big Air Cleaner, Big Muffler, Big Fuel Tank

Engine Oil Warning System, Automatic Voltage Regulator

Fuel type: Automotive unleaded gasoline

Circuit Protecting Device, Circuit Breaker

One Year Limited Warranty

[kneisl1]

The PowerPro 3500 is a 220 volt generator. It cant deliver all of the amperage it is capable of producing into 120v. I think youd be better off going with a 3000 watt generator that only makes 120v. My 2 cents!