3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[texasarrowhead]

I have a nikota 3500 I want to rewire it.It has the 10amp breakers.Can I used the same wiring as the powerpro instructions and do I need to replace 10 amp with a 15 amp breaker? I got this nikota before I read here.I wish I had bought a different one.If anyone has any instructions on the rewire for the Nikota 3500 please send!

[kneisl1]

Bob what about getting another 15 amp breaker like you have on there and setting up two 15 amp circuits. Is it possible I dont know.

[tom_scott]

My Thanks to Bob-B and Pat.j for there replays.

I will be on the road for a week, so I'll have to work on this problem
when I get back.
Thanks Again.

Ton Scott.

[bob_b1]

kneisl1 wrote:
Bob here is how I rewired my Power Pro 2200. Since the circuit looks to be the same as the 3500 Im thinking this would work for yours as well.
quote]

Kneisl1: I followed your directions via the wiring chart. It looks good. You found a way to use both sides of the circuit breaker. This is a little more complicated but is also more complete. Thanks for the info. I wonder if I can order a larger circuit breaker from Wen?

[mike_65]

Ok, I have verified the speed governor and/or throttle spring assembly and everything seems to be, as it should. I tested the power output with a Volt Ohm meter and it read 35 volts and fluctuating at normal (suspected) idle...when I manually increase the rpm's (above what I would consider normal for any load) I do see 110 to 135 volts, somewhat stable. When I release the throttle bar, the power drops back to around 35 volts to 0. Of course I am getting the "Nikota is Out-of-Business" reply when calling Pep Boys and no answer to "How do I fix this problem"? I am what some would call a "Jack-of-all-trades - Master-of-none" and know just enough to be dangerous therefore I don't mind bailing off into things as long as I am prepared and have full coverage insurance!! Under some circumstances duct tape and a big hammer have been known to be a man's best friend but for this problem, I would like to actually FIX it. Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated.

[kneisl1]

Bob here is how I rewired my Power Pro 2200. Since the circuit looks to be the same as the 3500 Im thinking this would work for yours as well.

I checked the gauge of the wires on my 2200 and found them to be 16 gauge. According to the electricians as work, this should be good for the 15 continuous amps my 2200 puts out, given the short distance invovled.

I removed the sheet metal cover on the generator head and found the red brown blue and white wires where they come out of the windings. These four wires go into a connector with spade terminals which hooks up to the power cable going to the panel. I removed the terminals intact from the two halves of the connector. I bus wired together the female connectors of the red and brown wires coming from the windings and soldered them. Did the same for the blue and white wires. Then I plugged the male connectors of the blue and brown wires into the two connections I made. I taped the red and white wires and closed the generator head.
I then removed the blue wire from the 120/240 outlet and the red wires from the 120v outlet. I attached the blue wires where the red wire was.
Ive odered a 15 amp circuit breaker for the 3500 PP from Wen and when itgets here Ill replace the 10amp with that.
I would determine the gauge of the wiring in your panel and ask someone who knows whether it is capable of supporting the 25+ amps your generator is capable of. Good luck and tell us what happens!

[bob_b1]

I had suspected that it was a 15-amp circuit breaker on my PP3500. I gotta say that I’m happy with the performance so far but wouldn't like to be limited to just 15 amps.
Here is a thought: I would want to upgrade the gauge of the wiring from the generator head to the plug. Since only one half of the 15-amp circuit breaker is being used (because of the rewire). I wonder if I can run one larger wire and split it into the two incoming wires of the circuit breaker. The two outgoing wires would rejoin a larger gauge wire going straight to the plug.

[kneisl1]

Gulfcoast you are right. The 120/240v generators like the PowerPro 2200 and 3500 should be avoided. What most all RVers want is a 120v generator like the one you have. The 120/240v generators cant put all of their wattage into 120 so instead of a 3500 watt generator you have a 2000 watt or less. They only make 3500 watts at 240 volts. But it doesnt say that on the box or even in the owners manual.
If you have modified your Power Pro 3500 into a 120v generator I suggest you take a look at the circuit breaker. Its 15 amps. How are you going to get 25 plus amps from a generator with a 15 amp breaker?
So to anyone considering the Power Pro 3500, think it over.

[PatJ]

tom scott,

It sounds like your adapter is wired wrong backwards with regards to the hot neutral reverse. I'd double check that.

re: the open ground thing, those little yellow plug-in testers just check for continuity between the neutral and ground and if there isn't any it shows open ground. Your generator doesn't tie neutral and ground together as in a residential electrical panel. You could ground with a driven rod bonded to the frame of the generator it would still say open ground on the little tester.

Hot and neutral reversed won't make fans run backwards or anything so don't worry about that. It is more of a safety thing as some appliances (especially much older ones) tied thier chassis to the N terminal. Doesn't happen much anymore but still it should be wired correctly.

[Gulfcoast]

Hey Fred64...

I have one of the Harbor Freight Tool gensets, and they are fantastic.

Starts first pull everytime, quiet, 120-volts with no wiring conversions needed.

I love it!

Thanks

[bob_b1]

tom scott wrote:
Bob-B thanks for the reply. I went back and checked, I had it wired as you outlined. I still have an open ground at gen panel. Also hot and nutral are reversed in TT. Maybe this is normal because of rewiring.

Hot and neutral are not reversed in my motorhome. Are you sure about the wiring? Do fans run backwards, ect? I'd check the polarity at the generator plug and proceed from there Tom.

Concerned.

[tom_scott]

Bob-B thanks for the reply. I went back and checked, I had it wired as you outlined. I still have an open ground at gen panel. Also hot and nutral are reversed in TT. Maybe this is normal because of rewiring.

Running the air,(13,500)I am getting 118v.

I also changed the four wires from the gen. head, the white, brown, red and blue to a number 12 wire in and out of circuit breaker to receptacle. I left the 120 outlet factory wired.

Thanks for the help. Tom Scott

[radaglast]

Has this happened to anyone else? I started up my new 3000w gen and the volt meter on the generator read 190volts. I then used my multi meter to test the volt output and again it said 190volts. I plugged in a large fan and a hair dryer and the motor did idle down and the meter dropped to 150volts. I called the company and they said it must be in the control panel electronics and are sending me out a new control panel. Now it is true that UPS did some damage (when shipping the unit) to the back cover of the control panel, but what can cause the volts to spike up and stay at 190volts? If it's not in the control panel electronics, can anyone suggest where the problem may be? BTW, the generator runs fine and as I said earlier it does idle down when a load is applied. When I applied the fan and hair dryer, the reading on the volt meter went down to 150 volts and she idled down. When I put the 220volt switch on, the volt meter went straight up to the max and was bouncing at the max reading until I put the switch back to 120volts and the reading again was 190volts. Does anyone have any ideas as to why this is happening or what can cause such readings???

[Fred_64]

I take it nobody has considered the Chicago Electric 2800W model you can get at Harbor Freight Tools for $329.00 ?? It has two 20 amp 120vac outlets, perhaps an easier configuration than all these twistlock conversions I've been reading about?
Anyway here it is. It looks like the same engine as the ELIM3000 (6.5HP)

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91523

[kneisl1]

The circuit breaker in my PowerPro 2200 is only good for 10 amps. Were I to do a parallel connection of the windings in the generator, they could then produce 15 amps at 120v. But you could never get 15 amps out of the circuit because of the 10 amp breakeer. Wouldnt the same be true of the PowerPro 3500? Im figuring the breaker in the 3500 is 15 amps because the wiring diagrams are identical 2200 to 3500. Im figuring the breaker is 10 amps in the 2200 because thats the most amps it could pull at 2200 at 240v. Thus, the circuit design is preventing the system from producing the amperage it is capable of in 120v. Wouldnt the same be true for the 3500? If it was designed to the same parameters as the 2200, then the circuit is fused for the same number of amps that 240v is going to draw. 3500/240 = about 15 amps. Electronics isnt my speciality but how can the generator, no matter the winding hookup, put out more than the breaker limits?