3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[guy48065]

catalina30 wrote:

SNIP
If you really want to have good service, buy from a brand name maker of there own equipment like honda, yamaha sears colman or whatever, don't buy anything that comes from an importer, as in most products from china. This is not a slam for china, more a slam of importers because few of them have good service set up.
SNIP
Kevin
The Right Lane

I would add Champion to the shopping list. From conversations with Paul their tech support guy I am impressed with their level of committment and customer support. The Champion 3500W unit appears to be the same engine, muffler and gen head as the Elim or Power Pro. Same specs, comparable price. The company is based in NY so most of their outlets are there and in Canada. I would think feistycapn should be able to find one in Vermont.

[feistycapn]

The above Pix id definately not the Costco version I checked out last week. On it the outlets and CBs are on the end of the generator head and not on a front panel.

[catalina30]

Presp,
Look on the top of the Genhead, that is where I found my circuit diagram. My Item #6041 has the 220v 4prong twist lock recept. I found that on the 115v recept the common bar was left in place but the hot side was cut, as is done with a half hot recept in your house. if on your diagram it looks like my post, you can do the mod and be happy with your genset. it is practice to protect the weakest link in the circuit. In this and other gensets it would be the recept. but if the head on the 6043 is wired the same as the 6041 it will require the mod to combine them. I would guess the head is the same, the outlets are different. the reason I say that is it makes no sense making a head special for each 3500 you sell. what you probably have is a 220v head wired only for 115v to save on the expense of the twist lock recept.
One more note, although I put a switch on the diagram, what I really did was make two dogbones, one for 3500w at 115, and one for 3500 at 220v. the reason is switches fail under vibration. on my boat I need 220v to run my electric drive. On my trailer I need only 115v, so the dogbones are where they need to be. I wired the 115v. recept as two independent recepts each one on its own leg, almost like it is done now with the exception of separating the windings. one other note, as there are 4 sets of wire making the coils in the head, it is possable to wire the head for 440v, I don't really see a reason to at this time, but because I use industrial controllers for my boat I may.

Kevin
The Right Lane

presp wrote:

professor95 wrote:

Presp's Nikota does not match any I have encountered in reference to specifications. Perhaps there is more than one model????

[IMG]http://show.imagehosting.us/show/748885/0/nouser_748/T0_-1_748885.jpg]Front panel view - unmodi...

Apparently, there are, or were, different nikota 3500 models.
This photo is of my Nikota 3500, model# 06043.
It came from the factory as shown. Same as all other Nikotas I've seen.
(I removed the receptacle panel to check the wiring after reading
professor95's admoniton -Posted: 03/25/05 08:43am, pg.15 @10/pg).

Each circuit on my Nikota 3500 is separate and produces 120v & 15a.
Both genhead coils output go thru a dual 15amp circuit breaker.
I don't know what it trips at, but it is more than 15amps.
(as mentioned in pg.131 post, connected two 1800w space heaters,
one into each receptacle, and it ran them ok. No cb disconnect)

Both 120v circuits appear to be on the same phase.
Hence, because of zero voltage between the hot side of each plug,
both rceptacles can be paralled to give 30amps into an rv plug.

If need be, I'll make a decent schematic and post it (since the manual has none)
Pres

[professor95]

Apparently, there are, or were, different nikota 3500 models.
This photo is of my Nikota 3500, model# 06043.

After looking at your link, there is no question about it. Your "Nikota 3500" is very different than the ones I have encountered. Overall, I would say you got one of the good ones for RV use. The 3500's I am familiar with have a 220 outlet and two 13 amp breakers (schematic labels them as 10).

Nikota was an importer/resaler. Nikota did not actually build the generator any more than ELIM builds the ELM3000. Perhaps Nikota changed suppliers or specifications sometime during their span of business? I am not sure we will ever know, but the practice is not at all uncommon.

My oh my, you learn something new every day!

[presp]

professor95 wrote:

Presp's Nikota does not match any I have encountered in reference to specifications. Perhaps there is more than one model????

[IMG]http://show.imagehosting.us/show/748885/0/nouser_748/T0_-1_748885.jpg]Front panel view - unmodi...

Apparently, there are, or were, different nikota 3500 models.
This photo is of my Nikota 3500, model# 06043.
It came from the factory as shown. Same as all other Nikotas I've seen.
(I removed the receptacle panel to check the wiring after reading
professor95's admoniton -Posted: 03/25/05 08:43am, pg.15 @10/pg).

Each circuit on my Nikota 3500 is separate and produces 120v & 15a.
Both genhead coils output go thru a dual 15amp circuit breaker.
I don't know what it trips at, but it is more than 15amps.
(as mentioned in pg.131 post, connected two 1800w space heaters,
one into each receptacle, and it ran them ok. No cb disconnect)

Both 120v circuits appear to be on the same phase.
Hence, because of zero voltage between the hot side of each plug,
both rceptacles can be paralled to give 30amps into an rv plug.

If need be, I'll make a decent schematic and post it (since the manual has none)
Pres

[professor95]

To Texasarrowhead.....
Presp's Nikota does not match any I have encountered in reference to specifications. Perhaps there is more than one model???? Anyway, please read Kevin's (catalina30) postings for an accurate and tested method to do the rewire your model apparently requires.

Oh, one other thing.... The Nikota 6.5 engine is slightly different than the Jiang Dong units. "Supposedly" (unproven) the Jiang Dong units are authorized clones of the real Honda GX 6.5 engine. Nikota advertised 4 more cc of displacement for their engines. But, this certainly does not mean one is better than the other!

[catalina30]

rwjejits wrote:

feistycapn wrote:

rwjejits wrote:
Well, I just phoned Homier and they are firm on the $299 price. They said the add price may have been for a road show near-by or out of date. Oh well, still with shipping and no sales tax I'm looking at ~$350 to my door.

Now I'm torn between ordering a Homier 4000w through the mail and take the risk of damage, or an PowerPro 3500 from PepBoys (if they ever get any more in town since RITA just visited) for comparable price..but little less wattage and need to re-wire.

Will someone make my mind up for me?

Me too. 🙂
I don't have access to Pep Boys or any retail outlet other than Costco

My choices are
Costco Ninkota at $279.99 + 6% = $297
Harbor freight at $329.99 + $9.00 S/H = $338
Homier at $299.99 + $51.64 S/H= $351

The Ninkota is an "orphan" uses brushes and pretty stripped down.
Leaning towards the Harbor freight unit. Any reason why the Homier would be a better option? Any choices I missed for units available by freight?

I am no expert but have read most of this thread. From what others have said, Nokita - stay away from this brand. They are either out of business...or no longer make gensets which could complicate warranty issues or getting spare parts. Harbor Freight - no comment. Homier - posts are pretty positive on this model (do a quick sarch for Homier in this thread). Has same 6.5hp JD motor, and supplies full wattage @ 120v w/o modifications. Sound specs are in the same ballapark to the other clones mentioned. Mine is ordered and on its way to me for a ~$257 incl tax & ship. I figure for the price I'm willing to take a risk on it.

Call Homier's store location in Indiana (number is on their web site). They originally quoted me a sale price of $299...but I mentioned that I had seen their "flyer" which had this unit listed for $199 and they honored it. Don't think they wanted to at first but gave in after I persisted.

Only reason to stay away from Nokita is they no longer are in business, I have one and it works fine, the motor is the same as all the others, it is a brushless unit, I have been into mine and I can tell you first hand. they are 110/220v and You will find a wiring diagram to convert to all 110 on the professors pages. I know the diagram works because I am the one that posted thru the professor.

If you really want to have good service, buy from a brand name maker of there own equipment like honda, yamaha sears colman or whatever, don't buy anything that comes from an importer, as in most products from china. This is not a slam for china, more a slam of importers because few of them have good service set up.
because the motors are the same, and because motor winding shops are all over the place, you really can't loose, I have seen high dollar brands that people have had a hard time when the head goes out getting them serviced. I have well over 100hrs on my Nokita and no problems. Any problems I have with the motor and I will treat the thing like a throwaway that it is, any problems I have with the head, I will fix it. there is no brain surgery required, all generators work the same with small changes ie.brushed,brushless, wire size number of poles. Stripped down or bells and whistles, but the low down is the more there is to them the more there is to go wrong.

Kevin
The Right Lane

[catalina30]

mike_65 wrote:
Ok, I have verified the speed governor and/or throttle spring assembly and everything seems to be, as it should. I tested the power output with a Volt Ohm meter and it read 35 volts and fluctuating at normal (suspected) idle...when I manually increase the rpm's (above what I would consider normal for any load) I do see 110 to 135 volts, somewhat stable. When I release the throttle bar, the power drops back to around 35 volts to 0. Of course I am getting the "Nikota is Out-of-Business" reply when calling Pep Boys and no answer to "How do I fix this problem"? I am what some would call a "Jack-of-all-trades - Master-of-none" and know just enough to be dangerous therefore I don't mind bailing off into things as long as I am prepared and have full coverage insurance!! Under some circumstances duct tape and a big hammer have been known to be a man's best friend but for this problem, I would like to actually FIX it. Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Jack, I mean Mike,

check the freq. at the ouput of the genhead, should be 60Hz. if you don't have a freq meter or ocillascope. you may have an RPM meter of some sort, RPM should be 3600. if it is where It should be you may have to replace the capacitor in the head, or a diode on the rotor.(brushless gen head).
If you speed up the engine by pushing on the trottle do get a counter push trying to slow things down? If you do you may find the adustment on the spring have backed out. adjust it untill you get the proper freq. and tighten the lock nut. Please note this adjustment is on the spring, it adusts spring tension.

If you don't get a counter presure on the trottle, you have a broken linkage someplace on the govener system, this could be in the engine or outside, if it looks good then it is mostlikely inside the crankcase. Look at the motor as a honda, with a different name. the parts may not interchange between honda and this china gen but the 6.5hp engine is the same manufacturer on all these gensets, only the head is different so you will be able to get your parts from any of the importers that sells the parts for them.

Kevin
The Right Lane

[lprice]

Professor,

If you took the ELIM 3600 generator (3200 watt) and flipped the two switches up and added the dogbone, could you use the generator to power a 30 amp travel trailer or would one have to re-wire the generator?

Thanks

[rwjejits]

feistycapn wrote:

rwjejits wrote:
Well, I just phoned Homier and they are firm on the $299 price. They said the add price may have been for a road show near-by or out of date. Oh well, still with shipping and no sales tax I'm looking at ~$350 to my door.

Now I'm torn between ordering a Homier 4000w through the mail and take the risk of damage, or an PowerPro 3500 from PepBoys (if they ever get any more in town since RITA just visited) for comparable price..but little less wattage and need to re-wire.

Will someone make my mind up for me?

Me too. 🙂
I don't have access to Pep Boys or any retail outlet other than Costco

My choices are
Costco Ninkota at $279.99 + 6% = $297
Harbor freight at $329.99 + $9.00 S/H = $338
Homier at $299.99 + $51.64 S/H= $351

The Ninkota is an "orphan" uses brushes and pretty stripped down.
Leaning towards the Harbor freight unit. Any reason why the Homier would be a better option? Any choices I missed for units available by freight?

I am no expert but have read most of this thread. From what others have said, Nokita - stay away from this brand. They are either out of business...or no longer make gensets which could complicate warranty issues or getting spare parts. Harbor Freight - no comment. Homier - posts are pretty positive on this model (do a quick sarch for Homier in this thread). Has same 6.5hp JD motor, and supplies full wattage @ 120v w/o modifications. Sound specs are in the same ballapark to the other clones mentioned. Mine is ordered and on its way to me for a ~$257 incl tax & ship. I figure for the price I'm willing to take a risk on it.

Call Homier's store location in Indiana (number is on their web site). They originally quoted me a sale price of $299...but I mentioned that I had seen their "flyer" which had this unit listed for $199 and they honored it. Don't think they wanted to at first but gave in after I persisted.

[feistycapn]

rwjejits wrote:
Well, I just phoned Homier and they are firm on the $299 price. They said the add price may have been for a road show near-by or out of date. Oh well, still with shipping and no sales tax I'm looking at ~$350 to my door.

Now I'm torn between ordering a Homier 4000w through the mail and take the risk of damage, or an PowerPro 3500 from PepBoys (if they ever get any more in town since RITA just visited) for comparable price..but little less wattage and need to re-wire.

Will someone make my mind up for me?

Me too. 🙂
I don't have access to Pep Boys or any retail outlet other than Costco

My choices are
Costco Ninkota at $279.99 + 6% = $297
Harbor freight at $329.99 + $9.00 S/H = $338
Homier at $299.99 + $51.64 S/H= $351

The Ninkota is an "orphan" uses brushes and pretty stripped down.
Leaning towards the Harbor freight unit. Any reason why the Homier would be a better option? Any choices I missed for units available by freight?

[kneisl1]

I dont know. I was wondering why the two wires run through the breaker on each side when as I remember the circuit breakers in my home service only have one wire going into and out of them. Its possible you have two breakers combined in one but Im dont really know. I thought it was one.I wonder is there any way to test them? We need someone who knows to help! Im thinking my circuit is wired wrong if there are two breakers there!

[presp]

mike_65 wrote:
Ok, I have verified the speed governor and/or throttle spring assembly and everything seems to be, as it should.

You must check that the engine is running at 3600rpm, or as close to it as possible.

The engine has no "idle" circuit or capability. It starts @3600rpm and stays there until its outta gas -or turned off.

Whatever adjustment is necessary to the speed governor must be made to hold 3600rpm all the time.
- Get a tachometer to check it out.

IMHO, a more useful gauge to have would be rpm rather than amps. At 3600rpm you have 60cps.
If the generator becomes overloaded then the rpm will drop down.
You don't need an ammeter to tell that.

Pres

[bob_b1]

kneisl1 wrote:
Bob what about getting another 15 amp breaker like you have on there and setting up two 15 amp circuits. Is it possible I don't know.

This is where it gets a little fuzzy for me. The circuit breaker has two sets of wires going through it. It seems like each side is 15 amps each. If you be able to take a larger gauge brown (+) wire (running 30 amps) and split it into two smaller wires (running 15 amps each), wouldn't actually be able to run 30 amps through the circuit breaker?

[presp]

texasarrowhead wrote:
I have a nikota 3500 I want to rewire it.

What reason do you have to "rewire" it?
(its only necessary if you must have 240v)

The Nikota 3500 comes standard with (2) 120v duplex receptacles (NEMA 5-15R).
(it has no 240v connections)

Each is on a separate coil coming from the generator and each is capable of 15+ amps.

Both duplex receptacles are the same phase and combined they will produce 30+ amps.

The CB (circuit breaker) is simply mislabeled - it is really 15+ amps on each.

I've tested it with two 1800w/120v heaters plugged into adjacent receptacles,
Certainly, it was working hard but it ran just fine. (108v)
Neither circuit breaker popped or needed a reset.

I'm all for "fixing" things, but what are you needing to fix on your Nikota 3500?

Pres