3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Ringo5000]

Marshall/Ak wrote:
I just purchased a Nikota 3500w chinese generator about 2 weeks ago. My impression after about 3 hrs use: it was a very good buy...I'm happy with it. It always starts on the 1st or 2nd pull, just like a Honda. The noise level is entirely acceptable, but somewhat louder than the Honda EU1000/EU2000 series I'm used to. There is a switch on the unit to select either 120 or 240v, but both voltages are not available at the same time. Contrary to one post I have read, the 120v outlets are NOT limited to half the generator power. The entire 3500w genset power is available to the outlets, even if only one side is used. This is because even though the generator has two seperate windings with 13a circuit breakers in each, they are wired in phase and in parallel, at the double outlets. The 120 outlet is of the standard doublet type with a built-in brass jumper (not a wire, just brass jumpers) from one outlet side to the other, ei: the hot is jumped to the hot on the other side, same for the neutral. This is what puts them in parallel, and is pretty much standard for 120v doublet outlets. The one caveat I have about this is if you are running a full 3500w load on just one outlet, the entire 26 amps is delivered in one outlet, and in general that exceeds the power rating of these outlets...most peak at a 20a rating. If this bothers you, you can always remove or cut the brass jumpers between the two outlets. Then you'll have two outlets, each capable of delivering 13a max.
The other interesting thing I noticed about these generators is the load regulation: it's just superb...outstanding. From no load to 1500w, I got NO reduction in voltage (I mean ZERO)...it was a constant 122.4 v. How were they able to accomplish this? I don't know...they must have an excellent regulator built in is all I can say.
My one and only complaint about this generator: DON'T fill the tank entirely to the top. Stop when you are about an inch of the top, and no more. If you overfill, as soon as you put the cap on it wants to syphon gas out to the exterior of the tank, with fuel running down the sides. This is potentially a serious fire threat, so don't locate this generator close to any open flames or campfires, or anything flammable for that matter.
If you need a good generator and want to save $$$....don't hesitate...just buy it!

Marshall
Seward, Ak

This is the same gen I bought. ($279.00 at Costco) Same results for me too. Excellent product. My tank did the same thing! It drove me nuts!

[professor95]

Strictly for information purposes...... (no endorsement implied)

Fellow Traveler (a contributor to this Forum) recently dropped me an e-mail alerting me to the new Champion Power Equipment "RV Ready" portable 3500 watt Chinese made generator. The image below is the only one I have, and it is not very clear. Champion has not posted this unit on their Web site yet. I do not know of availability or if the usual Champion sources (Kragen, Parts America, etc.) will have the unit in stock. I understand it does have a cover and wheel kit (optional?).

Apparently "RV Ready" implies that the unit has a 30 amp TT outlet on the front panel and routes full wattage to the single outlet.

Previous postings and discussions from folks on this forum indicated that the original Champion was a pretty good unit. It also carries a one year warranty.

[Skibane]

professor95 wrote:

So, unless you are using a 80's style rotary channel selector TV or an early tube type Stromburg-Carlson radio in your RV, the purity of the sine wave should make little difference to electronic equipment operation.

Also, some RV battery chargers (including the battery charger section in some inverters) have a zero-crossing detector that can be "fooled" into triggering at the wrong point in the waveform, if the waveform is very distorted or has discontinuities in it. (I have a Heart Interface inverter/charger that is a textbook example of this problem.)

However, I agree that all the concern over generator waveform purity is overblown. All you have to do is look at the waveform produced by any "modified sine wave" inverter (which is the standard design in most UPS gear for running "sensitive" computer equipment, BTW), and the output from your cheap-o generator starts looking pretty good!

[bassman1]

thats a clone with a honda emblem on it ha ha

[hgarraway]

Nice picture prof!

[professor95]

Here is a link to yet another clone of the clone of the clone. Can someone who is up to speed on all of these posts and this product line look this over and let me know if this indeed falls into the ELIM 3000 product class, and with free shipping is this a good deal?

Thanks,
Bill


Link....Link from Generator Depot

Sure does look like a JiangDong unit to me. Check out Harbour Freight's 5.5 hp generators. They are JD units and match the specs on the one you are looking at.

[professor95]

Speaking to the discussion of pure sine wave output vs. the so called "dirty" sine waves produced by some of the non-inverter Chinese generators:

Ironically, today's digital equipment is designed to operate off of a wide range of available input voltages and frequencies. Most high frequency switching power supplies used in this newer equipment operate flawlessly over an input range of 85 to 277 VAC and frequencies that may range from 40 to 100 Hz.

Older analog equipment using "brute force" power supplies (1/2 wave or full wave - capacitor or capacitor/inductor style) are more prone to exhibit problems from dirty sine waves.

So, unless you are using a 80's style rotary channel selector TV or an early tube type Stromburg-Carlson radio in your RV, the purity of the sine wave should make little difference to electronic equipment operation.

[Redapple]

Here is a link to yet another clone of the clone of the clone. Can someone who is up to speed on all of these posts and this product line look this over and let me know if this indeed falls into the ELIM 3000 product class, and with free shipping is this a good deal?

Thanks,
Bill


Link....Link from Generator Depot

or is this one better...I think the first one is one that will only provide 1200 watts per outlet pleas correct me if I am wrong. I think the second one here is the one I am looking for.

This is the second one advertised as a 3500 watt

[professor95]

I don't see a need to use that (orange) adapter. Not that it would hurt anything, or it's "wrong" or anything, just that IMO, it's not necessary.

The advantage of this adapter is that the surface contact area for the duplex pins is doubled. This translates to less resistance, lower heat and less chance of damage to the outlet at higher current levels. The "normal" dogbone adapters do not double the contact area. In fact, they only use a 15 amp rated plug. They can be overloaded and even have been known to melt.

Keep in mind that this type of adapter is only safe on a duplex outlet where both parts are common (not split).

[professor95]

[oldschoolrig]

I have a Wen Power Pro 3500. I looked at the exploted view parts list and it does have a brush assembly.

[Skibane]

ib516 wrote:
The ELIM 3000 can put out it's max power out of one 20A outlet IIRC.

3000 watts at 120 volts would be 25 amps. That's pushing a 20 amp outlet pretty hard, even if generator's continuous power rating is somewhat less.

[Mike_R_]

ib516 wrote: The ELIM 3000 can put out it's max power out of one 20A outlet, and he has ran the AC and microwave at the same time off a single 20 amp outlet, wouldn't the microwave and ac pull more than 20 amps? I would be worried about frying the outlet and go with the orange adaptor.

[ib516]

Clark W. Griswold wrote:

Rocky7184 wrote:

Hi Professor,

I have one of those original elim3000's.I haven't had the occasion to use it while camping yet.My question is about that orange adapter that plugs into the outlets that allows you to plug in the 30amp rv plug.Can this be done with this unit.

I apologize for asking this ? because i know it was asked and answered long ago.I've tried to find the answer but with the size of this thread i had no luck.

thanks,

jeff

I use that adapter with my ELIM 3000 and it works great.

I don't see a need to use that adapter. Not that it would hurt anything, or it's "wrong" or anything, just that IMO, it's not necessary. I guess it may be convenient to plug in that way. I plugged in my 30 to 15A adapter, and ran microwave and A/C at the same time in my TT. The ELIM 3000 can put out it's max power out of one 20A outlet IIRC.

[Clark_W__Griswo]

Rocky7184 wrote:

Hi Professor,

I have one of those original elim3000's.I haven't had the occasion to use it while camping yet.My question is about that orange adapter that plugs into the outlets that allows you to plug in the 30amp rv plug.Can this be done with this unit.

I apologize for asking this ? because i know it was asked and answered long ago.I've tried to find the answer but with the size of this thread i had no luck.

thanks,

jeff

I use that adapter with my ELIM 3000 and it works great.