โMar-02-2005 06:20 AM
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.
In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.
Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.
What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.
Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.
I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.
Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.
No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.
Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.
Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.
We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.
Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.
Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.
This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......
Randy
For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at โcloningโ reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a โrunningโ display model.
I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:
Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)
The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. โSupposedlyโ Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.
The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for โabove average qualityโ Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.
The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.
ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an โavailability listingโ.
The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings โ most likely universally available.
The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is โreasonablyโ quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a โlook alikeโ eng...
โMar-20-2006 11:34 AM
MELM wrote:
I didn't want to take this off topic, but I saw that the generators might be running a little slow and causing a problem with the ferroresonant converter charging, and an adjustment of the speed could correct that. There are still quite a few of those converters in use.
โMar-20-2006 10:10 AM
โMar-19-2006 07:00 PM
โMar-19-2006 05:42 PM
I believe a ferroresonant supply has large capacitors that "tune" it for the operating frequency.
Everone loves to bash Chinese generators, The Honda EU3000 has the GX200 motor in it, Guess what motor this Honda plant in China makes, plus a few more models.
[http://www.honda.com.cn/product/general/general_1.htm
โMar-19-2006 04:14 PM
professor95 wrote:
This is interesting. I visited the site as MELM suggested. I am surprised to see the term "Ferro-Resonant" used in the same sentence as 60Hz. Normally, ferro-resonant transformers are only used in much higher frequency applications. In fact, I don't ever recall encountering a true ferro-resonant transformer in a 60 Hz linear power supply. But, according to the Parallax site, they must exist.
โMar-19-2006 09:59 AM
The ferroresonant converters are very sensitive to frequency. From the FAQ page on the Parallax site:
โMar-19-2006 08:03 AM
Gary O wrote:
Will the newer Pepboys 3500 Power Pro with the voltage selector switch be able to run a 15000btu air conditioner?
โMar-19-2006 07:02 AM
โMar-18-2006 02:10 PM
โMar-18-2006 01:52 PM
professor95 wrote:
Hummm........ very interesting. I wish I had your old stuff to do some further investigating.
I am curious though, when you were testing with the Variac, did you have a load equivalent to normal useage connected to the Magnetek? That could make a big difference in the output voltage readings you obtained.
โMar-18-2006 09:24 AM
I had a similar problem with an old Magnetek converter. I suspected it was low voltage that was causing the problem but, in fact, it must have been related to either the waveform or the line frequency.
After I replaced the Magnetek with a solid-state converter, I experimented with the Magnetek and a variac. I could lower the input voltage to 90v and the DC output remained fairly constant (in fact it raised just slightly). However, when running from my generator, at over 110v, the output dropped to less than 12.6v. I measured all the voltages (AC and DC) with a Fluke RMS meter.
The Magnetek is a ferroresonant design. I believe it was either reacting to the fundamental line frequency being a little low, or to the waveform distortions (other frequencies and harmonics) riding on the AC waveform.
โMar-18-2006 09:08 AM
Professor95
When I use to work in commercial sound systems our technicians would sometimes test new amplifiers with a specific load using a series of resistors. This was to find if the transformer (excessive heating) or other pieces of the unit would stand up.
Question, can such a load be put on 120V output of my generator? What would be the size of the resistors? And how would they be straps together.
Oh yes, I hope that I'm on the right track. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks
โMar-18-2006 05:18 AM
boucher1 wrote:
Professor95
When I use to work in commercial sound systems our technicians would sometimes test new amplifiers with a specific load using a series of resistors. This was to find if the transformer (excessive heating) or other pieces of the unit would stand up.
Question, can such a load be put on 120V output of my generator? What would be the size of the resistors? And how would they be straps together.
Oh yes, I hope that I'm on the right track. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks
โMar-18-2006 04:58 AM
โMar-17-2006 07:20 PM
larryslocum wrote:
...When hooked up to external power or to the internal generator of my Vogue Class A, I get 13 to 14 volts through my converter (at the battery) depending on battery charge (8D). When hooked up to my Champion 3500 generator (early model) I never get more than 12.3 volts no matter what the battery charge. Needless to say, this is killing my battery. Is this a sine wave problem (dirty or square) or could it be related to the outlet plug issue discussed here so well?...