3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Surfer44]

Just purchased the PowerPro from Pepboys last night $329.00. I'm building a house in New Braunfels, TX. so I have a few uses for this generator as well as for my Montana.
Gassed & oiled it up today and it fired immediately and ran without a hitch all day. I'm amazed at the little gas usage, even though I was just using power tools. VERY QUIET compared to the construction generators that have been here. I think I'm really going to like this. It's a little hefty to throw on the tailgate, but I made it.

[MrWizard]

camperdave wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
I question your math, 20 + 15 is 35 amps , that totals more than 2400 watts that's 2400 on ONE leg and 1800 on the other ( max to trip breakers )

Yes you are right, I was assuming RV usage, where you only plug into one outlet. If you have multiple things to plug in to the generator, then you could theoretically pull 2400 + 1800, assuming the engine could pull the load.

a tbone adapter to both outlets or a twistlock adapter would yeild full load on one cord..according to the schematics that have been posted

but i'm leaning toward the 'alpower-powerwise' because of the signal heavier 120 outlet and the lower ratings seem more accurate

[camperdave]

MrWizard wrote:
I question your math, 20 + 15 is 35 amps , that totals more than 2400 watts that's 2400 on ONE leg and 1800 on the other ( max to trip breakers )

Yes you are right, I was assuming RV usage, where you only plug into one outlet. If you have multiple things to plug in to the generator, then you could theoretically pull 2400 + 1800, assuming the engine could pull the load.

[MrWizard]

camperdave wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
looking at the allpower 3000/3500 & the champion 3500/4450

OSH and pepboys have the allpower $269 & $329 respectively

kragen has the champion $299, both have 6.5hp engines

I wonder why one is rated for 3000 con 3500 surge and the other is rated 3500 con 4450 surge

and i couldn't find the noise rating on the box for the champion
( i have been very happy with the way my champion 1200 has performed )

I don't need the wheel kit (champion) as i will be removing the RV geset ( Generac XP45, i dearly loved ) and placing the subsitute on the slide out tray where the RV genset is ( solves the cooling issue ) slide tray out, while running in hot weather

it's really a matter of whether that extra 500 con watts is real

DOES anybody know ?

fwiw, the champion is limited by a 15a breaker on one leg, and a 20a on the other, so max 120v power available in stock form is 2400w by my calculations. Who knows where they come up with 4450w? Maybe from calculating something on the 220 side, I dunno? Realistically though, these two generators you are talking about have the same clone engine and should perform similar to each other.

I question your math, 20 + 15 is 35 amps , that totals more than 2400 watts that's 2400 on ONE leg and 1800 on the other ( max to trip breakers )

but it gives me pause to think

if the breakers are different sizes, I think i will purchase the allpower NOT the champion..

back to the stores I go, for another look see.


the one i looked at has the 120-240 switch and the twist lock recp

[camperdave]

MrWizard wrote:
looking at the allpower 3000/3500 & the champion 3500/4450

OSH and pepboys have the allpower $269 & $329 respectively

kragen has the champion $299, both have 6.5hp engines

I wonder why one is rated for 3000 con 3500 surge and the other is rated 3500 con 4450 surge

and i couldn't find the noise rating on the box for the champion
( i have been very happy with the way my champion 1200 has performed )

I don't need the wheel kit (champion) as i will be removing the RV geset ( Generac XP45, i dearly loved ) and placing the subsitute on the slide out tray where the RV genset is ( solves the cooling issue ) slide tray out, while running in hot weather

it's really a matter of whether that extra 500 con watts is real

DOES anybody know ?

fwiw, the champion is limited by a 15a breaker on one leg, and a 20a on the other, so max 120v power available in stock form is 2400w by my calculations. Who knows where they come up with 4450w? Maybe from calculating something on the 220 side, I dunno? Realistically though, these two generators you are talking about have the same clone engine and should perform similar to each other.

[MrWizard]

looking at the allpower 3000/3500 & the champion 3500/4450

OSH and pepboys have the allpower $269 & $329 respectively

kragen has the champion $299, both have 6.5hp engines

I wonder why one is rated for 3000 con 3500 surge and the other is rated 3500 con 4450 surge

and i couldn't find the noise rating on the box for the champion
( i have been very happy with the way my champion 1200 has performed )

I don't need the wheel kit (champion) as i will be removing the RV geset ( Generac XP45, i dearly loved ) and placing the subsitute on the slide out tray where the RV genset is ( solves the cooling issue ) slide tray out, while running in hot weather

it's really a matter of whether that extra 500 con watts is real

DOES anybody know ?

[FrizzleFried]

FYI people: I purchased a PowerWise 3500 from Kragen many moons ago. I have logged some 45 hours or more on to it without so much as a hiccup. GOOD STUFF for under $300!

[MrWizard]

adrianmiura wrote:
I don’t think I will ever use the 240 side. this generator was purchased to power our AC on our travel trailer.
My concern is that when in the 120 position the windings are parallel. MrWizzard, I checked the outlet, the tabs are intact, there is continuity between the white and blue wires and between the brown and red.
I have hooked up the TT to the generator run the ac (13.5k btu) it seems to work fine. however if you shut off the ac and restart it with out waiting at least 15 seconds for the head pressure to decrease the generator does not have enough amp force to start it up again and bogs the generator.
Is this typical with these 3.5k generators?
Thanks
Adrian

yes, actually it's typical of the A/C unit

in normal operation of the temp comtrol, the compressor will be off for at least several minutes

when it gets hot enough for mine to 'short cycle' I just turn it all the way up and leave it it there ( saves strain on all the parts , A/C & generator )

[sidst]

Most air conditioners I have run across have a label on them saying wait 2 minutes before restarting because of the high head pressure. The generator will bog down because the air conditioner is in locked rotor mode until the high head pressure decreases. A 13500 btu AC may draw up to 60 amps when in locked rotor mode(about 7200 watts), far too much for a 3000 watt generator. Even when hooked to home power the AC may not start immediately. Instead it may trip an internal automatically resettable thermal safety switch until the head pressure decreases.

[adrianmiura]

I don’t think I will ever use the 240 side. this generator was purchased to power our AC on our travel trailer.

My concern is that when in the 120 position the windings are parallel. MrWizzard, I checked the outlet, the tabs are intact, there is continuity between the white and blue wires and between the brown and red.

I have hooked up the TT to the generator run the ac (13.5k btu) it seems to work fine. however if you shut off the ac and restart it with out waiting at least 15 seconds for the head pressure to decrease the generator does not have enough amp force to start it up again and bogs the generator.
Is this typical with these 3.5k generators?

Thanks
Adrian

[T_Satt_USN_SS__]

Oh my goodness! You have a 240 output on your genset, do yourself a favor and have an electrician make you a jumper that you can run from your 240 generator output into a 240 input that has been correctly wired into your household Ckt breaker panel by that same electrician. That could save you and your family a lot of heartache, and I mean heartache literally.
Terry

[cmg3500]

The diagram looks good.If you ever want to hook that generator to your house panel,@ 240V,@have the 110v circuits in the house work also,all you need to do is run a wire from the brown jumper,to the empty terminal on the 240 plug(right below where it says 240v on the diagram),,then run 240 line from plug on gen to transfer switch,Isolation breaker,etc.

[sidst]

My suggestion is you get a dual 15 to 30 amp adapter, plug it into your dual socket and it will electrically tie both sockets together(if not already done inside the generator) and provide you with an RV 30 amp socket with full power available. An online site to buy it is: www.rvsurplussalvage.com
Power Maximizer 30 to 15 adapter sku 220500

[MrWizard]

that depends

see the dotted line connecting blue & white at the outlet

and again for red & brown

look on the outlet ( open the cover )

if the copper tabs are still there, so that there is a solid connection

on each side, then you can get full power to one plug

if that tab is missing on each side

then you have 1/2 power/amps on each socket

and need an adapter or to replace the socket

the wires appear to be parallel correctly

[adrianmiura]

I just purchase the PowerWise generator from Costco. 269.00
From the schematic, when switched to 120v could someone tell me if I’m getting the full amperage from both coils to one outlet?
If not is there an easy/safe way to accomplish this?



Link to image if not displayed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/adrianmiura/wiringdiagram.gif
Thank you,
Adrian Miura