3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
I have recently learned that it is pretty much identical to the US unit. The big difference is that all of the components on your unit had to meet very stringent CSA (Canadian Standards Association) certification to be sold in your country. In most cases, the parts are identical to the US counterpart other than the testing and "stamp" on the part.

For some product families, the CSA and UL requirements are very similar. I'm not familiar with the UL requirements (if any) for generators. Do the US versions have a UL mark?

In general, the requirements for products sold in Europe are much more stringent. Most European countries require CE marks.

[professor95]

Costco Canada in Montreal, is selling a portable 2800W genset by Champion.
Does any one know something about this unit? It has wheels.
I've not found this unit at Champion.

I have recently learned that it is pretty much identical to the US unit. The big difference is that all of the components on your unit had to meet very stringent CSA (Canadian Standards Association) certification to be sold in your country. In most cases, the parts are identical to the US counterpart other than the testing and "stamp" on the part.

The wattage rating has been downgraded from those sold in the US for the same reasons - to be absolutely sure it meets CSA standards. By giving a 2,800 watt rating, there is room to "play with". The Canadian unit uses the same engine and generator head as the USA unit and will actually deliver the same wattage as the USA unit.

[Gulfcoast]

I picked up a FINE 3500/3000 watt generator from my local "Big Lots" store the other day.

It's the standard 6.5hp, 120-volt, all power to one outlet genset that everyone is selling.

It runs great, starts on the first pull every time and purrs like a kitten all day.

Sure was worth $288.00 to me!

Thanks

[boucher1]

Costco Canada in Montreal, is selling a portable 2800W genset by Champion.
Does any one know something about this unit? It has wheels.
I've not found this unit at Champion.

Oh yes, the unit cost is 400.00 CDN$, which is good.

:?

Au revoir

[professor95]

Is it possible to add a switch to the generator to allow me to switch from the center tap 240V to a full wattage 120V in order to run my 15K AC unit on my 5th wheel.

Yes, and an excellent wiring diagram for the switch set-up is two messages back. The trick is finding a four pole - double throw switch rated at the desired 20 or 25 amps. This type of switch is not common. An alternate approach would be two DPDT (two pole - double throw) switches but the switch handles should be tied together for safety reasons. Other than that, using two switches would not hurt the generator. DPDT switches in the 20-25 amp range are common.

[professor95]

Professor95 - from this schematic (posted on page 197), in your opinion, does this gen. need an adapter connecting both sides of the duplex socket, or adapter to just one side of it to connect to the TT? I see a few conflicting posts on what should be done & am a bit confused (maybe more than a bit).

The schematic shown is for a switchable output, which is highly desirable and to your advantage.

The bridged adapter, which connects both duplex outlets to a single 30 amp TT outlet, gives you twice as much contact area on the duplex outlet. Since the duplex outlet on the generator is only rated for 20 amps and most "dogbone" style adapters have a plug only rated for 15 amps, the bridged adapter will be less likely to fail from heat generated by the resistance in the plug contacts.

To answer your question, "do I really need the bridged adapter?"
The answer is NO. In all probability a conventional adapter will work fine from your generator to TT outlet, But, the bridged outlet would be a nice accesory to have for your particular model generator.

[F550-4X4]

I recently purchased a 3500/4400 watt generator primarily for home use. My house already has an isolation panel and a twistlick 240V plug outside for the generator. According to the schematics that came with the generator it has a center tap witch means that it's only capable of half the rated wattage on each of the 120V receptacles. I've seen the wiring diagrams to remove the center tap in order to get the full wattage from a single 120V receptacle but then the 240V is no longer available that I need for the house.

Is it possible to add a switch to the generator to allow me to switch from the center tap 240V to a full wattage 120V in order to run my 15K AC unit on my 5th wheel.

The 5th wheel has a 50 amp service but I did not get the second AC. I could temporarily move the AC over to the other leg of the 120/240 service but I still don't think that the generator would start it with only half of the wattage.

Thanks for any input and happy camping!

[Alohatraveler]

adrianmiura wrote:
I just purchase the PowerWise generator from Costco. 269.00
From the schematic, when switched to 120v could someone tell me if I’m getting the full amperage from both coils to one outlet?
If not is there an easy/safe way to accomplish this?



Link to image if not displayed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/adrianmiura/wiringdiagram.gif
Thank you,
Adrian Miura

Professor95 - from this schematic (posted on page 197), in your opinion, does this gen. need an adapter connecting both sides of the duplex socket, or adapter to just one side of it to connect to the TT? I see a few conflicting posts on what should be done & am a bit confused (maybe more than a bit).

[MrWizard]

bump

[professor95]

I just noticed the Pep Boys add in this mornings paper and it appears that they now offer a clone to the EU2000i Honda. The specs are the same. 2000W max and 1600W continous. Price $699.00
Marvin

I believe the unit you are looking at is actually a Kipor Camping-Mate 2000 watt digital unit. Apparently Pep-Boys has relabeled it with their product trade name - All Power.

It is a nice unit, but their price is nothing to rave about. Several distributors list the Kipor brand for under $600 with shipping included. If you want to see more, one site you can check out is Hayes Equipment

Be sure to note that even though this is advertised as a "digital" generator, it does not produce the pure sine wave that the top-of-the-line Kipor Sinemaster or the Honda EU2000 does. Still, it should make a great camping generator if running a large AC is not the goal. It is lightweight, very quite and fuel efficient.

[Steve_in_29]

mnoeltne wrote:

sidst wrote:
My suggestion is you get a dual 15 to 30 amp adapter, plug it into your dual socket and it will electrically tie both sockets together(if not already done inside the generator) and provide you with an RV 30 amp socket with full power available. An online site to buy it is: www.rvsurplussalvage.com
Power Maximizer 30 to 15 adapter sku 220500

That looks like a good item for this, but I just started to order one and found they want $15.33 to ship it to me!!! It only costs $10, and wouldn't cost anything to mail. I decided for that much money I can wire my own. The local hardware store has a female RV outlet, and I have an electrical box and cover, so I'm just going to mount it to the gen frame and hook the wires over to the back side of the regular 120v outlet.

I didn't order one of those for the same reason. I even sent an e-mail to them explaining why they lost the sale. Big surprise, NO RESPONSE!

So I simply use my H2000i parrallel adaptor to do the same thing, albeit in a slightly bulkier package.

[professor95]

sidst wrote:
My suggestion is you get a dual 15 to 30 amp adapter, plug it into your dual socket and it will electrically tie both sockets together(if not already done inside the generator) and provide you with an RV 30 amp socket with full power available

This idea (combining at the 120 volt outlets) has popped up several times in the past and again lately. While I would like to believe the person(s) making this suggestion know what they are talking about, I am not sure everyone who reads the suggestion will fully understand the possible consequences and dangers.

It is all a big “IF”.

If your generator is series wound so as to provide two independently fused 120 volt circuits from a single 240 volt center tapped stator, you may NOT combine 120 volt outlets. Doing so will cause the output to read zero volts on a volt meter due to each side of the center tap being 180 degrees out of phase with the other. Under certain conditions, this arrangement possibly could send 240 volts into your RV (or you). Many generators are wired in this manner – especially models over two years old.

If your generator is parallel wound so as to combine two 120 volt windings (no 240 or center tap) that are both in phase with one another then is perfectly OK to combine the 120 volt outlets with a bridging adapter. Recently, several “dual voltage” generators in the 3,000 watt class have begun to offer this feature.

What if you are not sure about how your generator is set up? Best advice is to leave it “as is” unless someone who is known to be knowledgeable can assure you that it is safe to combine the outlets.

[Capp35]

First post!

I have a JD3000 made by Jiung Dong. Got it off of Ebay for about $275.
It only has one coil pickup and only runs 120 or 12V.

I ran heavier wires to the pickup. One to the 25amp fuse that was already on there and the other to a 30amp plug that I mounted on the face of the generator panel.
I used a metal hole cutter and cut out the hole on the panel so the plug could be mounted behind it. I bought the plug and a backing box at home depot.

Runs my travel trailer great and there is no heat at the plug, unlike using the 30amp to 15amp adapter

[mnoeltne]

I just bought one of the PowerWise units from Costco. Looks pretty good for the money, especially since it includes the wheel and handle kit. Started up on the first pull, so I certainly can't complain about that. I still need to set it up so I can plug the RV 30amp plug into it.

sidst wrote:
My suggestion is you get a dual 15 to 30 amp adapter, plug it into your dual socket and it will electrically tie both sockets together(if not already done inside the generator) and provide you with an RV 30 amp socket with full power available. An online site to buy it is: www.rvsurplussalvage.com
Power Maximizer 30 to 15 adapter sku 220500

That looks like a good item for this, but I just started to order one and found they want $15.33 to ship it to me!!! It only costs $10, and wouldn't cost anything to mail. I decided for that much money I can wire my own. The local hardware store has a female RV outlet, and I have an electrical box and cover, so I'm just going to mount it to the gen frame and hook the wires over to the back side of the regular 120v outlet.

[Horizon170]

I just noticed the Pep Boys add in this mornings paper and it appears that they now offer a clone to the EU2000i Honda. The specs are the same. 2000W max and 1600W continous. Price $699.00
Marvin