3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

So it seems most fall into the middle area, in the 60-70 range..
Curious question being, why would someone pay $1200 for a say a Yamaha machine thats only like 4-6db less then a $300 Champion machine? It would seem if you did that for sound, it really wouldnt matter...
Course again, everyones milage will vary

If I may take the liberty to change the numbers in your range from 60 to 70 dB to 65 to 70 dB I believe most folks on this forum will "buy in".

Even with that number, I will add that I would muc... sound level than one with a Chinese generator like mine running at 67 dB if the generator is run for prolonged periods of time.

It is interesting to note that last week whil...

[mavapa]

My interpretation of what the prof is saying is that generators with the same sound level reading may actually sound different to a human. Although they register the same on the dB(A) scale, the overall characteristics of the sound from one generator might be more annoying than those of a different one. That might (or might not, depending on your needs and the amount of money you have lying around) justify spending more money on a generator with what appears to be a similar sound rating.

[WaltinColo]

Wow!!
Quite abit of info there!
Excellent work!!

Yes, i imagine what bothers "you" is highly subjective, and that makes sense 🙂
That said, it seems most anything between 60-70 db would be perfectly fine for some folks, but not for others.
Sooo.. that said, im guessing the Champion at 68 really isnt much different then a Yamaha at say 64 db....
So the only real difference would be the extreem machines....like a 55db gen vs a 75db gen....
So it seems most fall into the middle area, in the 60-70 range..
Curious question being, why would someone pay $1200 for a say a Yamaha machine thats only like 4-6db less then a $300 Champion machine? It would seem if you did that for sound, it really wouldnt matter...
Course again, everyones milage will vary 🙂

Thanks Professor!
Walt

[professor95]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok...fair enough
Interesting that the C46540 RV is made to accommodate RV's yet it appears to be 1 db over the NPS regs....

Walt

Actually, I personally consider that 1 dB rating over NPS standards to be purely subjective at 23 feet. Depending on what is around you, the generator sound levels may be higher due to reflections or lower due to absorption of sound waves. In measuring sound levels of various generators, several of which were done this past week, I have discovered there are way too many environmental variables to emphatically say a generator produces xx dB.... period! In reality, we need a specific environmental standard for the sound level measurments ... last week while camped in a National Park. My readings were more like 61 to 63 dB - and some of those readings were taken at what was probably over 23 feet.

1 dB technically is an increase of 26% over the reference level, but the human ear isn't going to tell t... increase or decrease.

I believe the issue of annoying sound from a generator to be more one of monot... weighting, but the Onan did not sound as loud! The frequency of its sound was obviously more compr... weighting causes the meter to measure frequencies in the 500 Hz to 10,000 Hz range, which is the mo... range. Apparently the Chinese units have more sound pressure below 500 Hz than the other mentioned...

may seem trivial. I fully intend to do a further analysis of generator noise at some point in the ...

then the USG generator built on the JD specifications using a Honda GX200 clone engine must also be... and will surely pass certification requirments since the technical specs are the same.

Keep in mind ...

[WaltinColo]

Ok...fair enough 🙂
Interesting that the C46540 RV is made to accommodate RV's yet it appears to be 1 db over the NPS regs....

Walt

[professor95]

So at 68db, is the Champion C46540 RV "ok" to run for my PU at the campsite?
What db level would be considered to be too loud?
I don't wanna upset everyone around me, but if i can save $1000+ bucks, im all over that

Walt

On this forum, we have often referenced "acceptable generator sound levels" as being consistent with those required by the National Park Service while camping in their facilities. According to NPS the following are maximums as measured on the "A" scale.

10' shall not exceed 74dB
23' shall not exceed 67dB
50' shall not exceed 50 dB

Manufacturer's sound level measurements on virtually all of the Chinese generators we have reviewed ...

here.

Now, as to if the Champion is too loud for use in RV parks, you will have to consult with your RV neighbor. I know of no standard or law that dictates sound levels outside of the NPS system.

The actual sound level of the Champion can be improved by 2-3 dBat 23 feet by surrounding it with some sound asorbing material on the engine shroud side.

[WaltinColo]

So at 68db, is the Champion C46540 RV "ok" to run for my PU at the campsite?
What db level would be considered to be too loud?
I dont wanna upset everyone around me, but if i can save $1000+ bucks, im all over that 🙂

Walt

[btmfdr]

I purchased the Powerwise from Costco for $ 279.00, includes the wheel kit. Thanks to all of you for your posts which were very informative and educating.

Ran the generator for threee hours with the air and other smaller loads with no problems at all. The generator is surprisingly quiet and well worth the money. Much much quieter than I had expected even after reading all 260 pages of this thread.

To think prior to reading this thread I was ready to plunk down $ 1100 for the Honda 2000 for a unit that is seemingly somewhat more quiet...

Thanks Again!

[professor95]

I literally ran the pants off of my new Champion C46540 RV ready generator this past week. I am impressed!

More detail will follow in a few days. Right now we are in the middle of final exams at the college and I have a lot of grading to do first......

[professor95]

I am unhappy with this unit and I have a question for professor or anyone who may know. This is my situation:

I wanted this unit because it was said that the Jing Dong "Homier" units will run full power to both of the only two 110V outlets on this unit without modification. But what I received is not a Jing Dong eventhough the picture in the auction is identical to the Blue JD unit. My unit is almost identical but I have a different breaker on mine from the JD Homier unit. I cannot run one of the heavy load items which I wanted to use with this Genset which is in addition to camping related items.

This is my problem >>>>> The heavy load item is a Thermal Dynamics 110V 20Amp plasma cutter. When I try to use the plasma cutter, the voltage meter on the genset falls to about 90 volts and the plasma cutter will shut off everytime. I contacted the manufacturer of this plasma cutter and they said many people use these plasma cutters on a generator. I was told it should be no problem with my rated 2800watt genset but this is not the case.

***** This is my question to the professor or anyone who may know how to answer this, Is it possible to rewire a 110V two outlet genset so it will supply full power to both of the two only existing outlets on a unit of this type?? This unit only has two 25Amp 110Volt outlets.

While it is possible that your unit has split outlets, it is unlikely. Most 110 only units I have encountered have parallel connected coils. Still, you need to perform one (or both) of the following tests to determine the wiring design. Once you perform the tests, write back and let me (us) know the results.

You will need a portable multimeter set to read AC voltage. Select a voltage scale that will allow you to read up to 250 volts AC.

Start the generator.

Place one of the multimeter probe tips into the SHORT slot on one of the 110 outlets. It does not matter if the lead is black or red.

Place the other meter probe tip into the remaining SHORT slot on the other part of the 110 outlet.

If your voltage reading is 220 or higher, you have series connected coils in the generator and can only draw 1/2 of the total wattage from a single outlet.

If your voltage reading is zero volts your coils are parallel connected and you should be able to draw full wattage from either 110 outlet.

Be sure to "wiggle" the probes around inside the outlet to assure that you have made contact with the internal metal pins. Obviously, if you do not make contact a false zero reading might be obtained.

ALTERNATE TESTING METHOD:

Open the generator front panel so as to expose the wiring on the back of the outlet (generator off, of course).

Look at the back of the duplex outlet where the GOLD screws are located. On the side of the outlet, between the GOLD screws is a metal tab that normally connects the two together. If the tab is intact, you should have parallel coils and full power to any 110 outlet.

If the tab is broken out so that there is no electrical connection between the two halves of the duplex outlet on the gold screw side, you most likely have series connected coils and will only be able to draw 1/2 of the total wattage from a single outlet.

Let me know what you find......

[T_Satt_USN_SS__]

Here is the link to the actual Champion C46540 which is the RV ready portable genset. My A/C compressor doesn't even make it flinch when it kicks on! Runs Pleasingly quiet also. I see they have already raised the price to $329.00 but still a great deal. I got mine for $299.00 a few weeks ago. Enjoy.......

Champion C46540 RV ready generator

[boucher1]

Ctrl-Z

You will find the Costco unit at Champion # C46535CSA

C=Canadian, CSA=Canadian Standard Association

http://www.cpeauto.com/de2800_gen.htm




Roger

[Ctrl-Z]

professor95 wrote:

Costco Canada in Montreal, is selling a portable 2800W genset by Champion.
Does any one know something about this unit? It has wheels.
I've not found this unit at Champion.

I have recently learned that it is pretty much identical to the US unit. The big difference is that all of the components on your unit had to meet very stringent CSA (Canadian Standards Association) certification to be sold in your country. In most cases, the parts are identical to the US counterpart other than the testing and "stamp" on the part.

The wattage rating has been downgraded from those sold in the US for the same reasons - to be absolutely sure it meets CSA standards. By giving a 2,800 watt rating, there is room to "play with". The Canadian unit uses the same engine and generator head as the USA unit and will actually deliver the same wattage as the USA unit.

Sorry about quoting an older message but this particular subject is very relevant to me. The Champion 2800W generator that Costco Canada sells is one of the very few I can find locally (even though locally = 3 hour round trip). Can you please confirm that we're talking about the same Champion model genset rated at 4000W peak / 3500W running in the U.S.? Am I correct in assuming this Costco model is not the same as the "RV ready" Champion model mentioned elsewhere? All that is critical to me is that the generator be able to run my A/C and a water pump that a single Honda eu2000i is (perhaps just barely) incapable of doing. Thanks very much.

[Icecutter]

Hello and thank-you for the reply Red Clay Rambler. I am unsure if the genset I have with two 110V outlets is able to be converted VIA re-wiring. I have read through almost all of this thread about two-three weeks ago. What I have read is what lured me to buy my genset. My unfortunate position is that I have received a genset which is not what I was led to believe I was going to receive. Sorry to sound confusing 😞

I appreciate your help and anyone els who may help also. I just cannot find the page with the info that I am trying to find again. I am hoping I can be shown a drawing for my application or a link to a page which may help with my genset. Thank-you again. this site has been nothing but a help to me. Icecutter

[Red_Clay_Ramble]

All I can tell you is that several people on here have successfully done that, rewired for full power from one outlet. I haven't done it, but the info is here in the thread if you have the time to read through. Someone else will probably chime in. If you are sure that the ebay seller sent you a different brand than advertised, he should accept a return and refund you. The seller probably doesn't know the difference since they look alike, maybe you could explain that to him.

Good luck