3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

professor95, you wouldn't happen to have a wiring diagram of the C46535 to compare with the C46540, would you?

No, I do not have one for the C46535. Give me a couple of weeks, I believe I can come up with one for comparison purposes. Champion has been extremely responsive to my requests for tech info, hopefully they will continue to answer my questions.

[MrWizard]

that picture confirms my own obsevations

the VAR has voltage and ( it think ) current control

the tap from one main winding to the AVR provides the 'voltage sense' feedback

the FW winding controls the output voltage, the more current in the the feild winding the higher the output voltage

the exw is for senseing the current in the head and lets the AVR know what load ( how much current ) is on the output circuit

if the output current should exceed the rating for (x) number of milliseconds the AVR will reduce the amount of feild current, instead of trying to maitain an overload condition that would overheat the windings

this is my 'judgememt' from what i see , NOT a statement from champion

[catadjuster]

Received my new Champion RV Ready genset and tried it out. Runs either the 15000 or the 13500 AC on my 5er and also the microwave at the same time. Looks like this unit is going to be a workhorse. I was getting better voltage inside the 5er than I get hooked to the 30 amp plug on the garage. Although it may not be as quiet as the Hondas, ETC but you can still carry on a conversation while standing next to the genset.

[sleepywheel]

professor95, you wouldn't happen to have a wiring diagram of the C46535 to compare with the C46540, would you?

[professor95]

I just bought my rv ready genset (Champion) and noticed it had a bent tube on the top. It is on the controls side. Is this normal because it isnt scratched and the box doesnt look damaged it is like it came from the factory this way. It doesnt hit the gas tank but has a noticible bow to it.

No, it is not normal. At least not on mine or others I have looked at.

[professor95]

I finally bought a Champion generator for use as backup at home, and with my fifth wheel. I thought about buying a wheel kit but discovered that my 4-wheel furniture dolly fit under the generator very nicely. If I have to lift the generator, it will be lighter without the wheels. If I want to mount it on my fifth wheel rear platform the wheels will not be in the way. It is a lot cheaper and available at Menard's, Home Depot and Lowe's. Thanks for everyone's input.

Mike,
You will notice in the images two postings back that my generator is mounted on a rear platform. It works well there, but it is also easy to end up with exhaust fumes in the camper if you have a rear or side window open - especially if the wind is blowing the wrong way.

Just be aware of the potential danger and plan accordingly to keep you and your family safe.

[IFLYLTA]

I just bought my rv ready genset (Champion) and noticed it had a bent tube on the top. It is on the controls side. Is this normal because it isnt scratched and the box doesnt look damaged it is like it came from the factory this way. It doesnt hit the gas tank but has a noticible bow to it.



As for the cover the gen comes with a board to fit the top of the gen already (althou not as nice as yours)

[professor95]

A little known secret is that Champion has as an accessory item a really nice, heavyweight, professionally sewn vinyl cover for the 3500W generators.

I have one and really like it a lot better than the Bar-B-Q grill cover I previously used.




The biggest problem I had with the cover was due to the design of the generator, it would pool rain water on the top. I concluded something was needed to support the center of the cover. While a simple piece of plywood would work, I wanted something that would not slip around while in transit. I used 1/4" plywood, rounded the edges.....



...and attached cleats to the underside that locked it onto the pipe framework. I finished it off with polyurathane varnish. Works Great!



Now the cover does not sag and collect water when it is placed on the generator.

BTW, the cover is $24.95 plus shipping. I think the part number is AWC46535 (better check to be sure - they have 3 different sizes). You can order directly from Champion at the 800 number on the sticker for your generator. The cover also fits other similar Chinese generators, like my ELM3000.

[professor95]

I have obtained a copy of the Champion RV model wiring. I am posting it for those who expressed an earlier need. The wiring diagram is NOT in the Champion manual and could be very valuable later on (out of warranty) should problems arise.

One item to note is the Champion AVR (voltage regulator). They will not tell me what is in it or how it works, but it is obvious by construction and performance that it is superior to the simple capacitor used on others that I have encountered. Compared to the other Chinese generators I have plugged into an oscilloscope to look at the output waveform, this one has considerably less "noise" and distortion.



PS - I love the notation "sparking plug".

[Mike___Celeste]

I finally bought a Champion generator for use as backup at home, and with my fifth wheel. I thought about buying a wheel kit but discovered that my 4-wheel furniture dolly fit under the generator very nicely. If I have to lift the generator, it will be lighter without the wheels. If I want to mount it on my fifth wheel rear platform the wheels will not be in the way. The furniture dolly is a lot cheaper then the wheel kit and is available at Menard's, Home Depot and Lowe's. Thanks for everyone's input.

[Accurate]

Breambuster:

Here's a link to API rating system

http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/API_MotorOilGuide_2004.pdf

I used the Mobil 1 20-50 & the B8ES 'cause I live in NE FL
You being in S GA may want to consider doing the same.

My unit will be use mostly for back-up during the storms.

I also put an hour meter/tach on [see earlier post]

Enjoy!

KenS

[professor95]

CabanaBoy wrote:
Professor95-
I (I assume a lot of interested persons are) have been lurking for quite a while on this topic, and would like to thank you and all of the others for the diligence, research and information sharing that has turned this into a 220 page thread.

While I do not believe anyone is looking for praise, it is nice to know that the info and sharing has been of value to fellow RVers. I see all of us as a "community" with a common interest and bond. I personally enjoy being a part of that community and being able to give back a little of what others have unselfishly given to me. While I would have eventually probably "figured everything out" when I started RVing, I will never forget those patient souls who gave me the advice and direction I needed to keep my family safe and camping pleasurable.

[professor95]

So has there been any more info on possibly an "Upgrade Kit" for the older Champion units to the RV ready type?

Last update that I got from Mr. Cole at Champion was that while this is something he wants to develop and market, he is so overwhelmed with what he has to do that he has been unable to move forward with this new project.

I some one will e-mail to me or post the parts diagram and parts list for the "old" model, along with a good photo of the front panel, I believe I could compare that info to my RV model and parts diagram/list info and tell you what parts you would need to order to make your own kit.

[cicamper]

Breambuster wrote:
Got my Champion delivered yesterday! Cant wait to actually use it. One question though- What weight oil are you all using in the gen.?

Breambuster-
I used straight 30 weight. It was one of the few that had the right API service levels.

[Accurate]

Breambuster

I live in NE FL so I'm using 15w50 Mobil 1
At .6qt per oil change I don't think it'll break the bank
I also, per manual, changed the heat range of the plug to NGK B8ES [2411]

KS