3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

03Screw Wrote:

This thread is too long to sift through. I read up to page 55 then got tired. I recently bought a 2005 Gearbox toy hauler and the seller threw the portable generator with the deal. It's the Nikota 3500w. He said he ran everything just fine but not the micro and a/c at the same time. We ran it off and powered up the a/c and I also verified all other electrical goodies except microwave. On page 4 professor is quoted saying this "IMHO, DO NOT consider the 3,500 watt NIKOTA generator Pep-Boys sells for $299.00. It will only handle 1,200 watts on an individual circuit, which is not enough to sustain an RV air conditioner."
My question is how did this generator power everything up off the single 110 outlet? If this is wrong in doing so what should I look for? Meaning- is there any warning signs that this generator is actually hurting things. I really don't want to buy another generator any time soon.
I also remember seeing a post from somebody on page 44? saying they and two other family members bought the Nikota and had no problems.
Basically, Am I screwed?
Thanks

Yes, it has gotten really long - so long in fact that I cannot even remember what I wrote over a year ago!

And no, you are not screwed.

The original Nikota that was sold thru Pep Boys had series connected stators and no selector switch. Thus, only 1/2 of the total amperage could be pulled through an individual duplex outlet.

The original Nikota Company filed for bankruptcy about a year ago and liquidated their inventory to satisfy creditors. Many of these Nikota products made their way to the shelves of Big Lots.

A few months later Nikota brand generators began to show up at Costco. The name Nikota has been resurrected, but it was a different product handled by a different importer. The new models had a switch to select parallel or series stator configuration. I have a note as to who makes this unit at home, but cannot remember who it is.

Additionally, it was a pretty simple 4 wire rearrange inside the end cap of the generator to change the old Nikota to 120 volt only and parallel stators (full wattage to a single outlet) for RV use.

Not knowing what model you have makes it difficult to answer your question specifically. But, I hope the above story helps.

[03screw]

This thread is too long to sift through. I read up to page 55 then got tired. I recently bought a 2005 Gearbox toy hauler and the seller threw the portable generator with the deal. It's the Nikota 3500w. He said he ran everything just fine but not the micro and a/c at the same time. We ran it off and powered up the a/c and I also verified all other electrical goodies except microwave. On page 4 professor is quoted saying this "IMHO, DO NOT consider the 3,500 watt NIKOTA generator Pep-Boys sells for $299.00. It will only handle 1,200 watts on an individual circuit, which is not enough to sustain an RV air conditioner."
My qusetion is how did this generator power everything up off the single 110 outlet? If this is wrong in doing so what should I look for? Meaning- is there any warning signs that this generator is actually hurting things. I really don't want to buy another generator any time soon.
I also remember seeing a post from somebody on page 44? saying they and two other family members bought the Nikota and had no problems.
Basically, Am I screwed?
Thanks

[MrWizard]

you got a grat deal

I have the same one, $329 + taxes

it a very good generator, clean power, electronic voltage reuglation, a bunch of us have bought this model, including the professor

[code3run]

I think I posted this before but check this one out. I paid 299.99 for it.

CHECK THIS OUT

anyone have imput on this one? I have not tried mine yet.

[MrWizard]

I dont think this is the case, it seems like 90% of the 3500Tc models would not run the AC, and 90% of the 3500Ti models would, members of this forum exchanged their Tc models for the Ti models and got good results.

I didn't know that, ( egg on face ) that's what i get for not following the kipor thread, then making a guess about these generators,

like the professor said . must be in the quality of the inverter electronics

[Red_Clay_Ramble]

Looks like the manufacturer might be JD, the same as the original ELM 3000 gens that the professor used to originate this thread.

Find it HERE

Scroll down page for the RV-ready model.

Not bad for an RV-ready gen with electric start, although my ELM 3000 starts first pull anyway.

[tommyj3]

Has anyone checked out the Gentron 3500 Pro Series RV. 6.5hp with two 20amp plugs and one 30amp RV plug all 120 volts. Generator Depot, 449.00 with free shipping in US. Just got one and is sweet. Web site is Generator Depot.com

[Mike_R_]

MrWizard wrote:
we won't know until somebody a scope on one, or disassembles the two models side by side and checks pt#'s

but i wonder if the difference is just marketing

almost everything mfg can be sold a lower cost and still make money, if volume of sales is enough, by using the same parts put changing the designations they sell the same thing at 2 different prices.

the buyer looks them over, he wants the inverter model ( high quality ) but doesn't like the price, the other model looks identical, but it's cheaper and it says digital so he buys it

another buyer wants only the highest quality, looks at both models and buys the higher priced one convinced hes getting the best for his money

it's just a guess it''s like comparing a camero & firebird, same thing under skin same engine & chasssis, differenent cosmetics

in the generator game, it's the face panel, model number, and paint job

I dont think this is the case, it seems like 90% of the 3500Tc models would not run the AC, and 90% of the 3500Ti models would, members of this forum exchanged their Tc models for the Ti models and got good results.

[stockrex]

http://www.bestconverter.com/Transfer-Relays_c_53-1.html

can I get one of these auto tfr switches to be used with the generator and my house/rv electric box?

Professor, could you pls share the steps to make a manual switch

thanks,

FYI: I changed the oil in the subaru, it did not quite take the 1 litre of oil as the engine manual stipulates, it started to overflow with around 800 cc.

[MrWizard]

we won't know until somebody a scope on one, or disassembles the two models side by side and checks pt#'s

but i wonder if the difference is just marketing

almost everything mfg can be sold a lower cost and still make money, if volume of sales is enough, by using the same parts put changing the designations they sell the same thing at 2 different prices.

the buyer looks them over, he wants the inverter model ( high quality ) but doesn't like the price, the other model looks identical, but it's cheaper and it says digital so he buys it

another buyer wants only the highest quality, looks at both models and buys the higher priced one convinced hes getting the best for his money

it's just a guess it''s like comparing a camero & firebird, same thing under skin same engine & chasssis, differenent cosmetics

in the generator game, it's the face panel, model number, and paint job

[Mike_R_]

Quote: So, what is your take on the difference between the Tc and Ti, other than case color and price? That is a good Question, No one on the forum was not able to run their AC with the 3500Tc model (except angelbear, with the coleman mach 3 P.S.) but when you look at the specs, all the Tc models weigh the same as the Ti models in the same wattage, I also thouht that C was converter, and I was for inverter.

[professor95]

Mike R. wrote:
I dont know about the 2000Tc, but my brotherinlaws 3500Tc has the economy switch, and rpm's are determined by load, I thought all the Tc model were load dependent, Kipor just shows the run times at the rated load.

I just went back and checked my link to the kipor owner manuals, and the 2000Tc does show the smart switch, the 4500 rpm's is the max for the generator, something like the 2000Ti, and the EU2000

Yep, the smart throttle switch is there. Seems some of the specs, like at Hayes and Kipor, differ from what other sites and specs show.

The unit at ToolKing has a McCulloch label. McCulloch has used yellow as its flagship color for generations - I doubt that they would use (Homelite) red. The specs on the ToolKing site refer to it as the TC model and use the digital converter description once again. I am sure it is a relabeled Kipor 2000Tc.

$499 is a very nice price, especially with $7.95 for shipping.

So, what is your take on the difference between the Tc and Ti, other than case color and price?

[Mike_R_]

Click HERE and you can even see the smart throtle switch on the Tc unit, Tool King is selling a yellow 2000Tc model for $499

ToolKing

[Mike_R_]

professor95 wrote:
More on the PepBoys All Power/Kipor 2000Tc:

Looking at the owner's manuals on the link just provided. Both schematics are "almost" identical with the same specs, other than the amount of fuel used (remember, the Tc has no economy mode or idle control - it runs at 4,500 rpm all the time. Thus, it will use more fuel on the "average").

I still find it interesting that Kipor calls the Tc model a Digital Converter and the Ti model a Digital Inverter. Guess that is where the c (converter) and i (inverter) designations come from. While not a precise rule, the term inverter is normally applied to a device that has a DC input and inverts it to an AC output - usually at a higher voltage. The term converter is interpreted to mean a device that changes AC input to a DC output - usually at a lower voltage.

I did look at one in PepBoys last week. The advertised AllPower definately is the CampMate 2000 Tc. The fine print on the label even identifies it as a Kipor. Also, all of the Tc advertisements avoid the words "SineMaster" which are used extensively with the Ti model.

Again, I seriously suspect from what I have seen and read that while both use a 3-phase delta wound alternator to create a high frequency AC signal that is fed to an "inverter", we will find the waveform that comes out of the Tc is very similar to the so called "modified sine wave" produced by conventional DC to AC inverters and the Ti will have a nice clean sine wave.

I really hope someone that owns one (or both) will put them on a scope so that we can find a conclusive answer to the question.

I dont know about the 2000Tc, but my brotherinlaws 3500Tc has the economy switch, and rpm's are determined by load, I thought all the Tc model were load dependent, Kipor just shows the run times at the rated load.

I just went back and checked my link to the kipor owner manuals, and the 2000Tc does show the smart switch, the 4500 rpm's is the max for the generator, something like the 2000Ti, and the EU2000

[professor95]

bwloans wrote:
Well, just found out yesterday that a new unit will not be put in...according to the dealer, Fleetwood and Coleman(Airxcel) have determined that a hard-start kit needs to be installed. The say that Fleetwood does not order the A/C units with capacitors that will start A/C...I don't think this is the answer, but....

Alas, Fleetwood seems to be cutting a lot of corners in their products. I could write a book about what they left off or had to redo on my 2005 Regal. All told, the repair work while it was in warranty vastly exceeded any profit they might have had in the beginning.

But, this is not a Fleetwood quality forum, so I will refrain.

I would not worry too much about them adding a hard start kit to your AC. It should solve your problem. I just think it is sad.... no, let me restate that...... I think it is a (expletive) shame they can't do it right when they build the things!