3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[jimmyfred]

skyzoomer wrote:
This is an amazing thread with amazing contributors. Have learned so much and have only read less than half of the posts but intend to read every post as time permits. Did happen to jump from page 56 to page 200 where posts on the Champion C46540 started.

I don't own a RV but bought a Champion C46540 to power our home during power failures via a transfer switch. I have some questions and would appreciate some help setting it up.

=====

INTENDED CONFIGURATION:

1. Connect the RV connector to a Gen-Tran 30116V, 6 circuit transfer switch which has a L5-30, 3 prong male connector.

2. The optimum cable length is 30 feet. 25 feet is a tad tight.

=====

LOAD:
I intend to reserve wattage as follows:

1. Have 2 refrigerators so plan to alternate running them. Only one will be powered at a time.
a) Figure about 700 running watts with 2100 starting watts.
b) Generator has 4000 peak watts. So 4000 watts - 2100 watts = 1900 watts to run other stuff.

2. Tabletop portable range. Burner-1 = 1000 watts, Burner-2 = 500 watts. Kitchen lights = 150 watts. So total load while cooking = 1650 watts.

3. When not using tabletop range, might use 1200 watt microwave.

4. When not cooking, the 1900 watts would be used for various lights in home.

=====

QUESTIONS:

1. Will a 30 foot, 30 amp, 10-3 RV power cord be OK or will it run warm? Should I consider a 30 foot cord using #8 wire instead?

2. Where can I buy a TT30P RV plug connector if I make a 30 foot, 8-3 power cord? I've googled but have not been able to find the RV male connector alone anyplace.

3. Is my method of subtracting 2100 watts for the refrigerator from the 4000 watts peak to have 1900 remaining useable watts valid?

4. While sleeping, could both refigerators be running without overloading the C46540? All other circuits would be switched off.

5. Anyone with experience using the Gen-Tran 30116V transfer switch? Recommended?

Thanks,
Skyzoomer

...........1)Yes , 10-3 is plenty big...
...........2)Wal-Mart sells a 30 am RV plug
...........3)I would figure 3500 total available for a total wattage available number . If , one fridge is running at 700 watts , then the add'tl 2100 should be readily available to start the other fridge . Just as long as they both don't start simultaneously .
...........4)Yes....
...........5)No experience here ... , jf

[skyzoomer]

This is an amazing thread with amazing contributors. Have learned so much and have only read less than half of the posts but intend to read every post as time permits. Did happen to jump from page 56 to page 200 where posts on the Champion C46540 started.

I don't own a RV but bought a Champion C46540 to power our home during power failures via a transfer switch. I have some questions and would appreciate some help setting it up.

=====

INTENDED CONFIGURATION:

1. Connect the RV connector to a Gen-Tran 30116V, 6 circuit transfer switch which has a L5-30, 3 prong male connector.

2. The optimum cable length is 30 feet. 25 feet is a tad tight.

=====

LOAD:
I intend to reserve wattage as follows:

1. Have 2 refrigerators so plan to alternate running them. Only one will be powered at a time.
a) Figure about 700 running watts with 2100 starting watts.
b) Generator has 4000 peak watts. So 4000 watts - 2100 watts = 1900 watts to run other stuff.

2. Tabletop portable range. Burner-1 = 1000 watts, Burner-2 = 500 watts. Kitchen lights = 150 watts. So total load while cooking = 1650 watts.

3. When not using tabletop range, might use 1200 watt microwave.

4. When not cooking, the 1900 watts would be used for various lights in home.

=====

QUESTIONS:

1. Will a 30 foot, 30 amp, 10-3 RV power cord be OK or will it run warm? Should I consider a 30 foot cord using #8 wire instead?

2. Where can I buy a TT30P RV plug connector if I make a 30 foot, 8-3 power cord? I've googled but have not been able to find the RV male connector alone anyplace.

3. Is my method of subtracting 2100 watts for the refrigerator from the 4000 watts peak to have 1900 remaining useable watts valid?

4. While sleeping, could both refigerators be running without overloading the C46540? All other circuits would be switched off.

5. Anyone with experience using the Gen-Tran 30116V transfer switch? Recommended?

Thanks,
Skyzoomer

[hbski]

btmfdr wrote:
http://aldi.us/special_purchases_02/special_purchases_02_pid_57667.html

The genset will be $ 199.99 at Aldis beginning 9/2/07.

[btmfdr]

http://aldi.us/special_purchases_02/special_purchases_02_pid_57667.html

The genset will be $ 199.99 at Aldis beginning 9/2/07.

[hbski]

professor95 wrote:

hbski wrote:
I found some heat/sound shielding mat from Pep Boys auto parts and it should be safer than that flamable moving blanket.

I am sure it would be safer. I did not know Pep Boys carried the stuff - I will check it out.

BTW, the moving blanket was there only for a brief test. I have no intent of using it on a more permanent basis.

I have my design worked out, the propane conversion parts and hardware to remotely relocate the muffler are all in-hand as well. All I need to do now is find the time to build it. I gathered a lot of data from the first generation design and realized numerous mistakes. I believe this (new) model enclosure I have been designing will finally give the results I want at a "somewhat" reasonable cost. Once finished and tested, I will post all results.

Well, the amount of moving blanket you had on that one side surely should have absorbed quite a bit of acoustic energy!!!

Please do post your finished product. I too have a design, just finding it hard to find the time to actually build it. Does your current design remove/replace the frame?

Cheers,

DJ

[hbski]

Old & Slow wrote:

hbski wrote:

professor95 wrote:
........The blue moving blanket in the pic was part of a recent sound reduction/cooling experiment. Once the fuel tank and muffler are removed, sound shielding panels will be added (not a full enclosure). Preliminary test indicate a significant sound reduction is possible while still maintaining safety.......

I found some heat/sound shielding mat from Pep Boys auto parts and it should be safer than that flamable moving blanket.

Hbski:

Thanks, I found a roll at Pep Boys.........$19.99

Will see if it will work, among other things, for a wrap on my muffler pipe. Only a trial though. Little genny needs all the help she can get.

Don't think it's quite rated for exhaust wrap is it? Honestly, I didn't look at the rating as my current use keeps it 10+ inches from the genny. There is a material available for exhaust wrap though. If an auto parts store doesn't have it, a motorcycle place ought to.

Oh, and I bought it for the noise absorption more than a heat shield, so I mounted it with the blue side toward the gen. rather than the silver faced side. Figured it would absorb more acoustics that way.

[Old___Slow]

hbski wrote:

professor95 wrote:
........The blue moving blanket in the pic was part of a recent sound reduction/cooling experiment. Once the fuel tank and muffler are removed, sound shielding panels will be added (not a full enclosure). Preliminary test indicate a significant sound reduction is possible while still maintaining safety.......

I found some heat/sound shielding mat from Pep Boys auto parts and it should be safer than that flamable moving blanket.

Hbski:

Thanks, I found a roll at Pep Boys.........$19.99

Will see if it will work, among other things, for a wrap on my muffler pipe. Only a trial though. Little genny needs all the help she can get.

[professor95]

hbski wrote:
I found some heat/sound shielding mat from Pep Boys auto parts and it should be safer than that flamable moving blanket.

I am sure it would be safer. I did not know Pep Boys carried the stuff - I will check it out.

BTW, the moving blanket was there only for a brief test. I have no intent of using it on a more permanent basis.

I have my design worked out, the propane conversion parts and hardware to remotely relocate the muffler are all in-hand as well. All I need to do now is find the time to build it. I gathered a lot of data from the first generation design and realized numerous mistakes. I believe this (new) model enclosure I have been designing will finally give the results I want at a "somewhat" reasonable cost. Once finished and tested, I will post all results.

[hbski]

professor95 wrote:
........The blue moving blanket in the pic was part of a recent sound reduction/cooling experiment. Once the fuel tank and muffler are removed, sound shielding panels will be added (not a full enclosure). Preliminary test indicate a significant sound reduction is possible while still maintaining safety.......

I found some heat/sound shielding mat from Pep Boys auto parts and it should be safer than that flamable moving blanket.

[Old___Slow]

fireguy60 wrote:
I repair high pressure industrial air and gas compressors, they use a normally open switch on the final stage head to protect against overheat. The switch uses a small 6mm hole to mount and it closes at 320 F. It could potentially be used to close a kill circuit.

But, I don't know what the running temp on the head of a gen is.

fireguy60:

Perhaps you might give us a link if this switch is available for non comm. customers.


O&S

[fireguy60]

I repair high pressure industrial air and gas compressors, they use a normally open switch on the final stage head to protect against overheat. The switch uses a small 6mm hole to mount and it closes at 320 F. It could potentially be used to close a kill circuit.

But, I don't know what the running temp on the head of a gen is.

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:
Just a "heads up".

Northern Tool + Equipment has the ProForce 3000 watt Chinese Honda engine clone genset in their fall and winter catalog (page 12) for $299.00. They also have the Chinese built Cummings/Onan 3500 for $599.00.

We were at the "Rivia" (river for non-locals) last week. Big, bad thunderstorm came along and knocked out power. Once again, the little Champ kept us cool and illuminated, also abreast of the storm track via the DTV. Most other folks in the campground, sans a few big motorhomes, were in the humid darkness. It is nice to have that little bugger on-board!

Not so lucky at home. The storm brought down a fair size sweet gum and totally destroyed my boat garage. Luckily, the boat was with us at the rivia.

I finished the conversion to propane on the Champ 6,500 for my house last week and now have it installed.

photo 1
photo 2
photo 3

It replaces the old Generac with the Briggs engine that had developed a knock (rod?) It is sweet! This unit "might" be an option for larger RV's with 50 amp hook ups. It is a lot louder at 74dBA.

My next propane conversion project will be the 40008 Champion on the back of the camper. The blue moving blanket in the pic was part of a recent sound reduction/cooling experiment. Once the fuel tank and muffler are removed, sound shielding panels will be added (not a full enclosure). Preliminary test indicate a significant sound reduction is possible while still maintaining safety.

Please be reminded that my sharing this type of info is in no way an endorsement for others to do the same. Photos are only for entertainment purposes. I give no warranty as to the safety or appropriateness in other environments!

Professor95

You always make this thread so interesting!

I found all the pics helpful to my need to succeed in retro'ing my C46540. Please due keep us up to date in the change over to LPG with the 40008. I like the blue blanket idea. How many DB's lower than the stated 68/7 do you believe you might archive?

I just returned from a 8 day trip to Inks Lake State Park here in Texas. I had sooo much fun being a show off @ 73. I left my compartment door open to show case my little Yellow and Black C46540 genny. Fellow rv'ers would pass by while I was shinning my CHAMPION.It took the better part of a day:),. Some would ask.....will THAT power everything in your MH? My answer. Sure thing. Perhaps you might ask Mr. Cole to please send me a Champion flag.

Questions:

What tools are needed for the carb. conversion?

What US Carb. model will be needed for the 40008?

Will the choke no longer be needed after conversion making it possible to use a remote control?

O&S

[ol_Bombero-JC]

.

[Todd_Barney]

unclev wrote:
Can a generator like Champion 3500 be run while on the high way to power the A/C of a motor home? Say if the gen is mounted on the tray outside?

I think so. I went from Georgia to Utah and back with mine mounted on the tongue of my trailer. Had a few hiccups, which are documented in this thread a few pages back. But for the most part it ran the A/C fine.

[unclev]

Can a generator like Champion 3500 be run while on the high way to power the A/C of a motor home? Say if the gen is mounted on the tray outside?