3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Acampingwewillg]

Thanks Mr.Wizard and others for your thoughts and idea's.....Id feel alot better paying 100-300.00 for a smaller generator being that it wont get used that often. That 800 watt one sure sounds pretty good. Thanks again
Dwight

[MrWizard]

professor95 wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
3db on the db meter is a doubling of the energy the meter reads from source of the sound

most people barely detect the 3db difference

it takes 10db on the meter for the human perception to sense it as a doubling of sound level

While what you say is true, there is one other issue that should be considered. Lowering the sound level by 3 db reduces the sound (air) pressure enough that the distance at which the sound can be heard is significantly reduced.

A 65 vs. 68 db noise may sound the same when standing next to the noise source, but move back 35 or so feet and the 3 db loss really makes a difference.

yes it does, and the lower the level, the less it will carry, but that was not the question, the question was about the change in sound level , human perception can detect

[HedoTravelers]

Hemiallen wrote:
Anyone try running the exhaust into a bucket of water in an attempt to change the pitch of the exhaust tone? I would imagine if the end wasn't too deep , the backpressure may not create a performance concern....

Or is the higher db due to engine noise?

Allen

Probably not a great idea. If the engine was to suck in water, (ie; backfire, on shutdown, etc.),
I would think that there could be a possibility of hydro locking the engine or other damage.

[Old___Slow]

Prof95

Concerning the over voltage shut down circuit mention in a pervious post for a cost of $10. It's been something like fifty years since I assembled a Heathkit so the idea a old man like me might be able to put together some parts and make this item sounds interesting. Might make some wires smoke ( a Wgeogre11 saying and by the way, I miss him) but I want to be the first to sign on. Well maybe not the first but anyway count me in please. If anyone know exactly what a 3500w Champion needs, that person would be our Prof. I have had zero problem from anything I've plug into my C46540 but others have mentioned a possible over voltage possibility. I decided long ago to put all the possible this and that to rest but this one item I would like to try and see if the old and slow guy can do such a thing. The gen-guy was in process of putting together a add on m/board but he vanished. So we are depending on our Prof for the needed help with what ever is needed.

Floyd

[HedoTravelers]

Well I picked up my Champion C46540 from Tractor Supply. I also bought the protection plan for $49 that covers me for an additional 4 years, so 5 full years of 100% parts & labor. I deal directly with Tractor Supply for claims. Fortunately for me, they are only about 15 miles away. I never gave an add-on warranty a thought. It was a good deal to begin with for $289, but it is a great deal with the protection plan. Other than routine maintenance, I do not have to worry about any issues. I am one satisfied customer, or should I say happy camper.


PS - Like most others have reported, it fired up on the second pull after adding the oil. Did I mention it was 18 degrees here today?

[Hemiallen]

Anyone try running the exhaust into a bucket of water in an attempt to change the pitch of the exhaust tone? I would imagine if the end wasn't too deep , the backpressure may not create a performance concern....

Or is the higher db due to engine noise?

Allen

[Old___Slow]

Acampingwewillgo wrote:
Wow....what a long and interesting post. Since I didnt feel like reading through all 3500 plus postings here, maybe someone can give me a relative answer. Im looking for a smaller quieter generator...mainly for battery charging. Here's where the "relative" part comes in. My on board 10KW diesel is fairly loud although I dont have a DB meter to test with but I want something that I can run, lets say in a State/National Park, without distrubing the neighbors while maintaining my batteries. I see the Champion 4000 watt is rated at 68 DB and their 1500 watt at 65 DB....the Honda's are what, in the 58-59 DB area? Did I read here before, that 3 DB is the level in which you can audably hear a difference? OK...forget the facts and figures....would one of these be less distrubing than my Diesel? (older 1996 Power Tech 10KW Diesel). Tough question I know...but any thoughts would be appreciated..

DuroPower.com has a cute little 800w with 61 dBA model DP800 for a great pice of $99.99 I have the DP3500EC and it's never given one minute of problem. This company was givin a bad report by myself because of not answering a email. They have improved of late and their product is of high quality in my view and experience, with it's operation.

Floyd

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
3db on the db meter is a doubling of the energy the meter reads from source of the sound

most people barely detect the 3db difference

it takes 10db on the meter for the human perception to sense it as a doubling of sound level

While what you say is true, there is one other issue that should be considered. Lowering the sound level by 3 db reduces the sound (air) pressure enough that the distance at which the sound can be heard is significantly reduced.

A 65 vs. 68 db noise may sound the same when standing next to the noise source, but move back 35 or so feet and the 3 db loss really makes a difference.

[professor95]

HedoTravelers wrote:
Are these models unique to having the cast iron cylinder sleeve? Or do all the Champions have this? Anyone know?

The cast iron cylinder sleeve is pretty much standard across the entire spectrum of Chinese built Honda GX-200 engine clones, no matter what the brand. All of the CPE 200 cc engines have the sleeve.

[MrWizard]

3db on the db meter is a doubling of the energy the meter reads from source of the sound

most people barely detect the 3db difference

it takes 10db on the meter for the human perception to sense it as a doubling of sound level

champion makes a 1200-1500 watt generator, that works nicely for charging batteries, it often sells for around $199 on sale, check Kragen, shucks, auto stores or 'parts America'

[Acampingwewillg]

Thank you for the quick response....I kind of figure Ill end up with a small Honda but the Champion prices did look appealing.

[bobandcat]

Acampingwewillgo,

If you want quiet and reliable, I don't think that you could go wrong with a Honda 1000i or 2000i for battery charging. They are pricey but you could find a used one. There is also Kipor. Look at Ebay to get an idea on what's available but I wouldn't buy on off-brand. Parts and service would probably be non-existent.

These 3000 watt Chinese units should be quieter than your 10kw diesel by a lot but, not really quiet. That's why many of us are building enclosures to reduce their noise.

[Acampingwewillg]

Wow....what a long and interesting post. Since I didnt feel like reading through all 3500 plus postings here, maybe someone can give me a relative answer. Im looking for a smaller quieter generator...mainly for battery charging. Here's where the "relative" part comes in. My on board 10KW diesel is fairly loud although I dont have a DB meter to test with but I want something that I can run, lets say in a State/National Park, without distrubing the neighbors while maintaining my batteries. I see the Champion 4000 watt is rated at 68 DB and their 1500 watt at 65 DB....the Honda's are what, in the 58-59 DB area? Did I read here before, that 3 DB is the level in which you can audably hear a difference? OK...forget the facts and figures....would one of these be less distrubing than my Diesel? (older 1996 Power Tech 10KW Diesel). Tough question I know...but any thoughts would be appreciated..

[HedoTravelers]

I found this...


Have you called Ultra-Fab?
Try THIS LINK to find a dealer.
Are these models unique to having the cast iron cylinder sleeve? Or do all the Champions have this? Anyone know?

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

O&S wrote:
Prof95:

Maybe someone can figure out the puzzle to find a Champion 3500 120v with that 120/240v twist lock. Just try going the the NEW Ultra-Fab web site (www.ultra-fab.com) and see if you can find a dealer and if you find a dealer does he have one in stock. I understand completely what you say about the "NEW Blue Ultra-Gen Powerhouse Generators" not coming to market maybe until Mid April but they show all those fine looking YELLOW & BLACK Champions for sale. And is there no longer a 40008. Only found maybe two other posts other then you and MrWizard who posted owning that unit, if I am correct. Maybe MrWizard can give us the name of his dealer. PPL in Houston no longer lists the Champion 40008. Maybe someone can give us a online dealer.

Once again, the twist lock is rated for 120/240 volts. Just because it has a 240 volt rating does not mean it will supply 240 volts.

Prof, I do believe you speak with, well maybe, like in the first person narrative concerning Champion. That is why I ask for your help in locating a Champion 3500 that is 120v only and has a 120/240v twist lock:h. Now, I clearly understand just having a 120/240 twist lock will not in all cases supply 240v. I want to take a look see at this unit. This gets more strange as I go along. First I click on www.ultra-fab.com ( you gave us this link) and there is the Champion 3500 (Yellow and BLACK) and then I click on more info', no deal. Is there such a unit? and where do I find it? Like you said of Joe Friday. Just the facts ma'am, just the facts. Anyway this looks to be their answer for a replacement of the Now old C46540, only now the price is $459. With a 120/240v twist lock. ME thinks folks should take advantage of the lower priced, now on the market C46540. This might be the last chance to get on the train. And like you say, if it ain't broke why fit it. :@ My C46540 operates flawlessly.