3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[CosmicVagabond]

Wgeorge11 wrote:
I can't speak for all those other "old" folks out there, but I'd say if you can get one of these Yellow Jacket gensets (say Champ) for $200, GO FOR IT! It will get the job done. Need help? Just ask the Professor or the Wiz. They have more answers than my 75yo brain can generate without a lunar pre flight program, or the static generated by aging anomalies.

Ha ha, neat post.

[Wgeorge11]

I can't speak for all those other "old" folks out there, but I'd say if you can get one of these Yellow Jacket gensets (say Champ) for $200, GO FOR IT! It will get the job done. Need help? Just ask the Professor or the Wiz. They have more answers than my 75yo brain can generate without a lunar pre flight program, or the static generated by aging anomalies.

[bobandcat]

The checker/schucks/kragen/murray's $150 rebate on the Champion C46540 RV model may indicate that it is at the end of its product life cycle and they want to deplete the remaining stock. For those who don't care if they have the latest model, it should be a good deal at $200 after the rebate.

[HedoTravelers]

I posted that when there was only one entry for the rebate... what happened to that thread?
All of a sudden Floyd hates Champions!? When did that happen?

[mcmurphrjk]

HedoTravelers wrote:
Anyone else see this...
LOOK AT THIS THREAD

Yup, pretty interesting.

Notice my sig? Pretty well sums it up.

[professor95]

HedoTravelers wrote:
I am seeking surge protection from the genny to protect my laptop, HDTV, etc in the trailer in the event of a failure of the genny's regulation. Is this unnecessary?

Yes, it is unnecessary.

A surge protector will not give you protection from a failure of generator regulation.

[HedoTravelers]

Anyone else see this...
LOOK AT THIS THREAD

[Slick_Sammy]

HedoTravelers wrote:

Slick_Sammy wrote:
Just an FYI post here: When I ordered the wheel kit for my Champion 46540 from PartsAmerica, i was not sure if it would fit. It is part # 40066, at $29, which is not listed on Champion's site. I called them and confirmed that it DOES fit this model generator, and i installed that just fine last week. So now you know 🙂

Does it look like this kit?

yes that is the same kit, 40066 for $29 at partsamerica.com.

[HedoTravelers]

I am seeking surge protection from the genny to protect my laptop, HDTV, etc in the trailer in the event of a failure of the genny's regulation. Is this unnecessary?

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
The surge protector looks OK. You do not really need it with the genny - and it won't offer protection unless you are grounded, but it won't hurt to have it onboard.

Agreed.

Just thinking out loud here. The typical surge immunity testing performed on most products (4kv to 6kv) simulates lightning strikes on the grid or to earth. In other words, it comes in on the power mains from the grid, so not having the camper connected to the grid (aka: generator powered) means you are not likely to encounter a typical surge event when running from a generator.

If you are in a generator powered camper and lightning strikes either, I doubt this surge arrestor will protect much. Same case with lightning striking a house directly, the typical surge arrestors will probably not be able to handle the energy from a direct strike, JMHO. Hmm, I'm not sure that grounding the generator would help in every situation either, since the ground would provide a low resistance path to ground in which the path might be through the camper.

There are some product standards that require surges in the order of 20kv and 10kA, the product is not expected to survive but is required to fail in a safe manner. Sometimes I love my job. 🙂

[pitstop]

professor95 wrote:

I suspect the C46540 will work OK with the HW30. But, if the above conditions develop with the HW30, you will need to bond the neutral and ground together or use their adapter as they advised.

While I am one who has strongly advocated NOT doing this for RV usage, I will concede that it should be safe IF you have the HW30 connected. The HW30 will sense a fault in either the genset or RV, if one should occur, and shut down your RV electrical supply.

Update from pitstop:
I received EMS HW30 and it would not work with C46540. Protector errored with open ground. The protector allows bypass, but that defeats the purpose of my protection.

Champion responded to my email with a link to a document on their site regarding removing the bond on Canadian gensets. They said to reverse the procedure for my model.

After placing a jumper from ground (green) to the white leads by the AVR, everything works fine.

My Champion is race weekend ready now.

[cachingcampers]

professor95 wrote:

Before you make or buy any adapter, please give me the NEMA number of the outlet and the make and model of the genny. Also, is there a switch to select between full power at 120 and split 240?

Thanks,

I believe the NEMA # of the receptacle on the genset is L14-20R, there is no switch to split the 120/240. The genny is:http://championpowerequipment.com/CSA40020.php
(The schematic of the genny is available there as well)

I'm not extremely knowledgeable about the electrical aspect, so by all means if I have posted something incorrectly please correct my error!!

[HedoTravelers]

So it is not good for the genny, and only good for the trailer if grounded to earth. Doesn't sound like what I need.
Could you suggest something that would work either inline, or onboard the genny that would provide protection for electronic devices I may use in my trailer, or in my house during power outages. I plan on using the RV plug with the trailer, and the standard plug for the house during outages.
I could use a simple plug strip style for the house, but what would I use for the RV? Is this a real concern, or am I over thinking this?

[professor95]

catchingcampers wrote:
Has anyone mad an adaptor for the 20A twist lock 4 lug to a 30Amp RV plug? What is required parts wise, does any one have the pin out schematic for that? or does anyone know of an inexpensive source to buy one pre made? I need the full 20A to start my AC unit.

Thanks!!

Whoa!

Before you make or buy any adapter, please give me the NEMA number of the outlet and the make and model of the genny. Also, is there a switch to select between full power at 120 and split 240?

[professor95]

Brent,

The surge protector looks OK. You do not really need it with the genny - and it won't offer protection unless you are grounded, but it won't hurt to have it onboard. According to the specs:

UL 1449 Clamping Volts: 130 VAC (L-G), 260 VAC (L-L)

Install the device inside the RV - preferably at the main circuit breaker. Select the 130 volt option and wire between the BLACK wire and the grounding wire (bare or green). Again, when you are not plugged into shore power you will not have a ground unless you create one by attaching the frame of the genny/RV to a good earth ground via a grounding rod. An earth ground should be present for the device to work properly.