3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[PrivatePilot]

LittleBill wrote:
During a power outage, i ran my elim3000 to power a variety of objects in my house. it uses a capacitor for voltage regulation ( a supposed inferior item, compared to the AVR found in champions).

Come to think of it, I did something similar last fall (ran our house as best as possible with my dirt-cheap 1000W chinese genny) and the UPS was online (but not in inverter mode) the whole time with *zero* problems. We sat in our living room watching TV and surfing the net while the rest of the neighborhood was sitting in the dark.

The UPS in question is an APC as well, and it had no issues whatsoever.

[LittleBill]

HedoTravelers wrote:

LittleBill wrote:

HedoTravelers wrote:

notice they say to run 2 plates for durability i only have 1 plate maybe i will get another

I've been scratching my head over that too. :h

Read the bulletin i posted. the plate im taking about is the guides for the valve lifters. it is made of plastic. they say to run 2 for extra durability

Sorry for being ignorant but I am curious, where would one find this bulletin?

i posted it in my original post

[HedoTravelers]

LittleBill wrote:

HedoTravelers wrote:

notice they say to run 2 plates for durability i only have 1 plate maybe i will get another

I've been scratching my head over that too. :h

Read the bulletin i posted. the plate im taking about is the guides for the valve lifters. it is made of plastic. they say to run 2 for extra durability

Sorry for being ignorant but I am curious, where would one find this bulletin?

[LittleBill]

PrivatePilot wrote:

professor95 wrote:
The possibility of a UPS operating off of a Chinese 3,000 watt class generator is pretty remote.

I'm curious why Champion would go so far as to specifically mention it in their operators manual, then?

I have two UPS's, one mid-level, and one moderately high-end...to satisfy my curiosity I'm going to take the high end unit out in the next day or three and try it on both my (ultra cheap) 1000W chinese genny, and my new (moderately cheap) Champion 3000w chinese genny..and see what happens.

I do know that both of the UPS units are quite sensitive as I have heard them kick onto self-powered mode when the power starts doing funny things in our neighborhood (brown-outs during storms, for example), but on the flip-side I find it hard to believe that the power coming out of "any" Chinese generator (as you suggest) is so bad that it wouldn't even allow a UPS system to function outside of inverter mode.

During a power outage, i ran my elim3000 to power a variety of objects in my house. it uses a capacitor for voltage regulation ( a supposed inferior item, compared to the AVR found in champions). the generator ran both my computer, tv and stereo. all of which use UPS units. all 3 different models, all APC brand. the UPS didn't even beep (indicating a power issue) and all 3 ran for 2 days with 0 problem.

Not sure why people think the power is that bad? i ran everything and anything in the house with 0 problems. voltage and frequency were perfect for the 2 days of running

[PrivatePilot]

professor95 wrote:
The possibility of a UPS operating off of a Chinese 3,000 watt class generator is pretty remote.

I'm curious why Champion would go so far as to specifically mention it in their operators manual, then?

I have two UPS's, one mid-level, and one moderately high-end...to satisfy my curiosity I'm going to take the high end unit out in the next day or three and try it on both my (ultra cheap) 1000W chinese genny, and my new (moderately cheap) Champion 3000w chinese genny..and see what happens.

I do know that both of the UPS units are quite sensitive as I have heard them kick onto self-powered mode when the power starts doing funny things in our neighborhood (brown-outs during storms, for example), but on the flip-side I find it hard to believe that the power coming out of "any" Chinese generator (as you suggest) is so bad that it wouldn't even allow a UPS system to function outside of inverter mode.

[LittleBill]

HedoTravelers wrote:

notice they say to run 2 plates for durability i only have 1 plate maybe i will get another

I've been scratching my head over that too. :h

Read the bulletin i posted. the plate im taking about is the guides for the valve lifters. it is made of plastic. they say to run 2 for extra durability

[professor95]

BobandCat wrote:
Info from the Champion techline:

Should I use a surge protector? (All generators)

Electronic devices, including computers and many programmable appliances use components that are designed to operate within a narrow voltage range and may be affected by momentary voltage fluctuations. While there is no way to prevent voltage fluctuations, you can take steps to protect sensitive electronic equipment.

Install UL1449, CSA-listed, plug-in surge suppressors on the outlets feeding your sensitive equipment. Surge suppressors come in single- or multi-outlet styles. They're designed to protect against virtually all short-duration voltage fluctuations.

or:
Obtain an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) device. Most UPS devices come with a rechargeable battery between the electronic equipment and power supply source. The device buffers the voltage and protects against virtually all short-duration voltage fluctuations.

Bob, your intentions are good and I completly understand your putting confidence in a manufacurers techline - after all they should know what they are talking about! But, unfortunately, this is not really very good advice.

1st. Surge suppressors are NOT designed to protect against virtually all short-duration voltage fluctuations. They are only designed to shunt major power surges/spikes well out of the normal voltage fluction range of a generator.

2nd. Computers and many similar devices are NOT designed to operate only within a very narrow voltage range. Conversely, these devices are designed to operate over a very wide voltage and frequency range via extremely rugged and well designed switching power supplies. Whoever originated this statement must have written it in the 1970's or early 80's.

3rd. The possibility of a UPS operating off of a Chinese 3,000 watt class generator is pretty remote. In fact, if it does work off of the generator, it probably is not a very good UPS. A quality UPS will carefully analyze the power line waveform and it will switch to inverter mode if the frequency and waveform are not absolutely perfect. Thus, when plugged into a Chinese genny, they will disconnect from the power line and supply power from the batteries via the inverter until the batteries run down - which will be pretty quick. A UPS is a great idea for operating off of standard grid power as an extra margin of protection.

Please, don't waste your money or feel protected by following the above advice from the Champion techline. I am extremely disappointed that they would supply such advice!

[jchernyb]

Interesting...thanks for the info about the rebate.

[Acampingwewillg]

Hemiallen wrote:
The $299 advertised price at the store is WITH the $150 rebate, according to both their website, and my mail insert flier I got this morning.

Nowhere do I see it advertised for $299 from the store, just online sales which does not allow the $150 rebate.....

Allen

Hi
Just so there is no misunderstanding of what I was told Via E-mail I will Quote.
"Here is the deal, you can get the price match(299.00)of the on line price and rebate OR regular price(349.00) plus the 25% discount and rebate. You cannot have both discount and price match with rebate."

If you want the actual E-mail I received, send me your E-mail address and Ill forward it to you.
Hope this helps.
Dwight

[Hemiallen]

The $299 advertised price at the store is WITH the $150 rebate, according to both their website, and my mail insert flier I got this morning.

Nowhere do I see it advertised for $299 from the store, just online sales which does not allow the $150 rebate.....

Allen

[Wgeorge11]

PrivatePilot wrote:
So long as you never put fuel in it I'd say it could sit for years with no problems so long as it's in a dry location where things won't rust.

Once you put fuel in it, however, the clock starts ticking. The manual on the Champion 3000 I just bought recommends running the generator at least once every 14 days, which seems excessive IMHO, but it says it none the less.

I generally run my generator once a month at least, making sure it comes up to operating temperature, and then I turn off the fuel tap and let it run dry to limit the amount of fuel sitting stagnant in the float bowl. This also helps prevent any fuel in the bowl from flooding the engine if you move the generator before starting it again.

I think you're right on the money, Pilot. Took me a couple years to figure out why my engines wouldn't start in the spring, or after sitting around for a while. A little stabilizer and shutting down by turning off the fuel cock solves a lot of unnecessary problems. Otherwise, I've got a bunch of small engines that get run as needed and I haven't had problems for a long while.

[HedoTravelers]

notice they say to run 2 plates for durability i only have 1 plate maybe i will get another

I've been scratching my head over that too. :h

[tvman44]

PrivatePilot wrote:
So long as you never put fuel in it I'd say it could sit for years with no problems so long as it's in a dry location where things won't rust.

Once you put fuel in it, however, the clock starts ticking. The manual on the Champion 3000 I just bought recommends running the generator at least once every 14 days, which seems excessive IMHO, but it says it none the less.

I generally run my generator once a month at least, making sure it comes up to operating temperature, and then I turn off the fuel tap and let it run dry to limit the amount of fuel sitting stagnant in the float bowl. This also helps prevent any fuel in the bowl from flooding the engine if you move the generator before starting it again.

I'm sure they arenot considering properly storing it afterwards. I have a coule of other small engines (gneerators, high pressure washers) that are close to 10 years old and I don't runthem but 2 or 3 times a year but I use Stabil and drain the carbs. Never had a problem with either.

[tvman44]

LittleBill wrote:

tvman44 wrote:
Go to the Champion website and there you will find all the service information you can use on this ginny.

http://www.championpowerequipment.com/tb/CPETB1020001%20Valve%20Adjustment.pdf

HTH.
Wish all manufacturers were this generous with their information.
🙂

Different valve clearance in this bulletin


word to the wise, valve clearance numbers are different between the two bulletins. i have a 1st generation rocker assembly elim3000. my generator was sitting at the valve clearances listed in this document. i of course tried to adjust them breaking the stud bolt on the intake valve. hopefully i can get a replacement bolt.

notice they say to run 2 plates for durability i only have 1 plate maybe i will get another

watch the clearances and decide for yourself

What are you referring to by 2 plates??

[ol_Bombero-JC]

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