3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

blkfe wrote:
I tried "yellow" house insulation without success. It turned black and started to smoke. Not sure what the difference is but maybe someone with more knowledge of insulation than I will chime in.
Brad

Yellow vs. Pink....... hummmm. They are different brands. I know there are some newer "no itch" insulations on the market that may contain different materials. Turning black and smoking is not a situation I have encountered. But, bleaching of the color from pink to white does occur.

Yea, I'd like to know what is going on as well. Most likely something other than just spun glass fibers in the insulation. Perhaps some fiberglass matt from the autobody section of Advance Auto would serve the purpose as well? I have used that as a heat wrap close to the headers on the TV with success. Just don't know about the yellow stuff.

[blkfe]

professor95 wrote:
I received a question via PM last night. I thought it might be good to bring it over to the open forum.

Q: How did you insulate the exhaust pipe when extending it to bring the muffler out of the enclosure?

A: I used regular old residential spun fiberglass insulation (paper removed) about 1" thick without compression. Wrapped it around the pipe and secured it with a few tabs of masking tape.

I then loosely (do not compress tightly) covered the insulation with a foil duct tape I purchased at Home Depot. The adhesive on the back of the foil tape has not been effected by the exhaust heat and still holds tight. The little pieces of masking tape will burn off quickly.

I did note that "pink" fiberglass will turn white from the heat, but the glass itself does not burn.

Another type of wrap would be fiberglass water pipe insulation. It comes in rolls about 1" wide and 1/2" thick. At our HD it is sold under the Frost King name. This is a little easier to wrap around the exhaust pipe.

The muffler can be wrapped in the same manner. This is one good, heat resistant, metal tape.

I tried "yellow" house insulation without success. It turned black and started to smoke. Not sure what the difference is but maybe someone with more knowledge of insulation than I will chime in.
Brad

[guy48065]

I'm glad it has that kind of internal governor...but if there's something wrong with it, it's more difficult to fix.
The governor has all its parts and does seem to function--when I push on the lever arm it resists and tries to keep speed constant. I just wish it would do this for varying loads. Maybe the pinchbolt on the lever is loose. I'll have to remove the tank and get a good look at it.

[Old___Slow]

Professor95,

I notice with interest your Electro-Choke. With a LPG conversion, is it possible to start the engine with a Electro-Prime on the unit on your install or the retro kit from US-CARB, I continue to have a desire for remote start.

[professor95]

guy48065 wrote:
fter I bought my Wen "PowerPro 3500" way back in the early days of this thread I tested it under load and was impressed with the quality of its output even under full load. I keep it around if needed as an emergency generator and other than starting it occasionally it hasn't seen any use. Fast-forward to this past weekend when a storm takes out my power. Finally I get to use the generator. It starts right up and runs fine. I plug my fridge into it, fill the tank and head off to work. When I got home I immediately could tell it was running too fast. A quick check with my DMM verified the output was correct voltage but 78Hz frequency. To slow it down I had to back out the speed screw till it almost fell out. Then when I loaded it the engine lugged and frequency dropped to about 45Hz. Long story short (too late, I know...) the speed and load regulation on this genset now stinks. What could have happened in 10 hours use?

I never really gave it much thought before but just HOW does a generator maintain the output frequency at a steady 60Hz despite widely varying loads (and surges)? It looks to me to be the same spring & flywheel air paddle setup found on push mowers.

The WEN, like most all other 200 cc Chinese genny engines, are very similar to the Honda GX200.

It does not use the spring and air paddle governor system you may have seen on other engines.

The governor is internal and preadjusted when the engine is built. It runs off of the cam gear. You can get an eyeball here.

It is rare for the internal parts of the governor to malfunction - but it can happen.

Typically, one of the two springs on the external part of the governor assembly are out of wack or missing. They can also unintentionally entangle with wires or other loose items. The governor arm that reaches out over the flywheel can also come loose from the shaft that comes out of the engine.

The photo below shows the correct position of the rods, governor arm and springs. When the engine is off, the governor arm will have tension when pulled to the right. (The rust in the photo is from mouse pee. They made a home in the enclosure over the winter - time to clean and paint!)



Since your engine has been sitting, is it possible that some part of the assembly has gotten stuck? Run the engine and observe if the governor arm makes any attempt to move. This may give you some clues as to where to look next.

It is "tricky" to get everything back in sync if something is bent or broken.

[professor95]

I received a question via PM last night. I thought it might be good to bring it over to the open forum.

Q: How did you insulate the exhaust pipe when extending it to bring the muffler out of the enclosure?

A: I used regular old residential spun fiberglass insulation (paper removed) about 1" thick without compression. Wrapped it around the pipe and secured it with a few tabs of masking tape.

I then loosely (do not compress tightly) covered the insulation with a foil duct tape I purchased at Home Depot. The adhesive on the back of the foil tape has not been effected by the exhaust heat and still holds tight. The little pieces of masking tape will burn off quickly.

I did note that "pink" fiberglass will turn white from the heat, but the glass itself does not burn.

Another type of wrap would be fiberglass water pipe insulation. It comes in rolls about 1" wide and 1/2" thick. At our HD it is sold under the Frost King name. This is a little easier to wrap around the exhaust pipe.

The muffler can be wrapped in the same manner. This is one good, heat resistant, metal tape.

[guy48065]

After I bought my Wen "PowerPro 3500" way back in the early days of this thread I tested it under load and was impressed with the quality of its output even under full load. I keep it around if needed as an emergency generator and other than starting it occasionally it hasn't seen any use. Fast-forward to this past weekend when a storm takes out my power. Finally I get to use the generator. It starts right up and runs fine. I plug my fridge into it, fill the tank and head off to work. When I got home I immediately could tell it was running too fast. A quick check with my DMM verified the output was correct voltage but 78Hz frequency. To slow it down I had to back out the speed screw till it almost fell out. Then when I loaded it the engine lugged and frequency dropped to about 45Hz. Long story short (too late, I know...) the speed and load regulation on this genset now stinks. What could have happened in 10 hours use?

I never really gave it much thought before but just HOW does a generator maintain the output frequency at a steady 60Hz despite widely varying loads (and surges)? It looks to me to be the same spring & flywheel air paddle setup found on push mowers.

[Old___Slow]

crankshop1000,

Great going. A Champion will do the job in a factory genset compartment. Will be anxious to see the pics.

Hope others who have done the same will give us a heads up.

[Old___Slow]

Yah, Well we all agree !!, it only happens once in a life time. Why do you think I was not looking in the side mirror, me with a horn?:R

[WaltinColo]

I knew id get a chuckle outta ya there O&S! 🙂

As for us....... well, perhaps you should consider a nose job and a new pair of glasses. I also note, as expected, that you are blowing your horn.

Noticed that, did ya? 🙂

[crankshop1000]

Will do on the pics professor95. We have been suffering some rough weather here of late and I have been running a couple of my other generators for 2 of my kids. They have been out of power for 2 days.

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
Did you really have to show God and everybody my picture? Very good, Walt. he he

God knew what what you looked like before the photo was posted. Neither He nor your dog cares much about looks.

As for us....... well, perhaps you should consider a nose job and a new pair of glasses. I also note, as expected, that you are blowing your horn. :B

Day 4 at 100 degrees or above in Richmond Metro area. All records dating back to 1876 for number of consecutive 100 degree days this early in the year have been broken. Makes me concerned about what July and August will bring!

[professor95]

crankshap1000 wrote:
The Flair originally was fitted with a genny that disappeared somewhere along the line.Since I had the original housing area with a door and the transfer switching already in place, I decided to use a champion 4000 watt genny from CSK to replace the original.I added a nice chrome extension pipe to the stock genny muffler and left about 2" of pipe through the screen in the genny door. I added a choke cable and clocked the pull start cord so it was accessable from the front.I added some extra rubber vibration dampening under the genny and also some sound deadening material to the original sheet metal surround

Thank you for sharing your success.

Helping fellow RVers to accomplish such innovations as yours safely and effectively has been one of the goals of this forum for several years. Many "ideas" have been floated - some sank and others stayed above water.

Your set-up sounds very nice. Is it possible to make some photos of your accomplishments and post them to the forum? If you are not familiar with how to do this, a photo hosting service is needed. I use Photobucket for my images. It is free and very user friendly. Of course, other services work equally well. In the RV.net editor you can either click on the link or image icons and attach your photos (max size should not exceed 800 x 600 pixels). Dial-up users can opt to NOT display images upon loading in their preferences set-up, so do not feel you must use the link feature - actual image posting is acceptable.

Thank you for sharing and please check in and contribute to the forum on a regular basis. There are many others out there who want to learn what you have accomplished.

[professor95]

Deleted by Professor95 (duplicate posting)

[crankshop1000]

For what it's worth...First post!!! I'm a new owner of a Fleetwood Flair 26 foot class A. It's a well taken care of 1989 on a Ford Chassis 460 gasser (41K miles).I have been going over each system one by one to assure no surprises. So far, so good. The Flair originally was fitted with a genny that disappeared somewhere along the line.Since I had the original housing area with a door and the transfer switching already in place, I decided to use a champion 4000 watt genny from CSK to replace the original.I added a nice chrome extension pipe to the stock genny muffler and left about 2" of pipe through the screen in the genny door. I added a choke cable and clocked the pull start cord so it was accessable from the front.I added some extra rubber vibration dampening under the genny and also some sound deadening material to the original sheet metal surround.I still have to pull the genny out of the housing to add fuel, but that isn't a big deal as the Champion seems to be pretty thrifty on fuel.I used a cable and lock to secure the genny to the chassis. I have run the unit for about 3 hours so far and it handles the AC and microwave with out any protest.Heat does not appear to be a problem and the noise level inside the MH is not annoying at all.Thanks for all the info I got here before I bought the Champion ($299 after $100 rebate).