3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

pritch272 wrote:
A quick question, which is better, the Model 40012 from Home Depot or the C46540 from TSC ?

Also be aware that the HDepot 40012 has the neutral bonded to the genny frame. The C46540 does not. For RV use it is safer NOT to have the neutral bonded to the frame. For home power outage use it is OK for the neutral to be bonded to the frame.

The 40012 is 120 volt output only. The C46540 is 120/240. You probably would not need 240 on a small genny unless you were trying to run a deep well pump, small 240 volt air compressor or welder.

On the other hand, the 40012 has a lower Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) level and a cleaner sine wave than the C46540 due to a different type of alternator winding.

TSC has a reputation for taking anything back with "no questions asked" during the warranty period. If you buy the Champ from TSC and have a failure 9 months down the road, you will most likely get a new replacement generator on the spot.

[pritch272]

Thanks, leaning towards TSC for the 4 year service plan...

[MrWizard]

AFAIK they both produce the same amount of power, I think the RV adapter comes with the HD model while the RV pug is built into the TC model

its really a matter of personal choice or availability or maybe price, if both stores are close at hand

I HP has a service network setup so if you have an 'issue' with the genny, you take it back to the store and they handle the fixing or replacement or what ever

if they are close to you , that could be a plus

[pritch272]

A quick question, which is better, the Model 40012 from Home Depot or the C46540 from TSC ?

[professor95]

Its been awhile since we have had a really good technical discussion on the Chinese Generator forum. Perhaps this will open the door?


Last night I was talking to a “beach buddy”; Rob and his wife are always at Emerald Isle during the month of July when we hit the shore. I guess I have known Rob for over 10 years. We always end up talking tech stuff.

Well, Rob threw out the subject of zinc (ZDDP) being removed from most motor oils due to problems with the metal causing damage to catalytic converters. Apparently the makers of motor oil have determined that since automotive engines with flat tappets are now no longer made there is no need for the metal. You see, Zinc provided an antiwear and antioxidant property that was needed for surfaces that were prone to high pressure – such as flat tappets and pistons at BDC and TDC transitions.

Not all oils are void of zinc. Oils designed for trucks, such as Valvoline synthetic, still have zinc.

This got me to thinking about the oil we are using in our 200 cc generator engines. These engines do not have roller tappets. They still use the “old fashion” flat tappet design. If we use oil that is low in zinc or totally void of the metal, are we possibly subjecting our engines to an early death?

I honestly don’t know. But the subject is one that creates some personal interest and concern. Right now I am considering a switch to Kendall GT-1 at my next generator oil change.

Below are some links related to the issue:

http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_0702_pitstop_zinc_oil_additive/index.html

http://micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_in_Engine_Oils.aspx

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/flat_tappet_cam_tech/index.html

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

[professor95]

ol-Bombero-JC wrote:
Unsolicited (from me) Ice Maker observations:
The ice (round cubes, LOL!) with the hole in the middle - melt
pretty rapidly.
They're not frozen solid like (colder temp) cubes
from your freezer.
If you put a 'em in a bowl (or?) and
then in your freezer, they "clump" ('cause they're very "wet").

Had one - took it back. Bought more ice trays.

Yes, I noted that all you said is true. But the speed ice is made and the amount we use makes it a real plus. Those issues have not outweighed the convenience it gives us.

Anyway, the "softer" ice makes really great frozen Margaritas with no ice chunks!

...... and it will run off of a Chinese generator.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

.

[tvman44]

The microwave would do nicely:)

[Oldfordman]

eric1514 wrote:


2) I've read here that I should "exercise" the generator periodically by giving it a load to deal with. What besides the AC on my trailer, which is inconvenient, would provide a good load easily?

TIA,
Eric

I pull mine out (I got the Wheel Kit so it is fairly easy to do)and use it to run my Electric Weed Eater. It takes about an hour to trim the perimiter of my property and I don't have to:

a) keep pre-mixed gas for a gas weed eater
b) run a long extension cord that is constantly getting unplugged

I got one of the larger (7.5 Amp) Weed Eaters and it puts more than enough load on the generator to give it it's "exercise".

[JConatser]

wuttevr, in those posts of yours that I found, you said you would post some pics of your "modification". Did you ever post those pics?

[professor95]

JConaster wrote:
Perhaps this is the post that Wuttevr is referring to? Plus this one a couple posts below

Well, guess my head is in the mud again? I thought we addressed this and supported the idea by switching from polystyrene to Hardibacker concrete board? I certainly don't believe it was ignored.


BTW, re-reading the posting, just becasue air flows in and out of an enclosure does not mean that sound will also flow in and out. Moving air only creates sound by the friction/vibration/movement of the objects it passes over and around. Sort of like the age old question of a tree falling in the forest, but no one is there to hear it - thus, is there sound? Sound waves and resultant pressure on objects may follow an entirely different pathway than "cooling" air. The size of the opening, reflection, refraction and absorbtion can be quite different.

[Gerry2006]

In response to a post, the Duropower DP3600Ri was $1,399 plus tax. I haven't yet run it with heavy loads for extended periods, but thanks for the suggestion about running a tank of gas through then changing the oil, before taking my August trip. Racefan - I hope I lucked out. I see that coincidentally you are also from Redding. Perhaps sometime our paths will cross.

[Jer_Ger]

I was wondering if the pics were ever posted, and if so, where please. Also, as a side note, the choke lever broke on my Champ a few weeks ago, maybe a month out of warranty. I called the service dept and told them. They informed me that they had had a bad run of the levers and I had one (free) in my mail in less than a week. Another satisfied customer....Jerry

[JConatser]

professor95 wrote:

wuttevr wrote:
It's like Prego; "it's in there". Somewhere out there is a subsequent post detailing the finished product with sound level tests, materials used, and my observations about improvements. It all fell on mostly deaf ears. The ironic thing about this forum is there are lots of really good ideas, just as long as they come from a select few

Hummmm....... Interesting comment. I imagine Bell, Ford and Edison felt the same way at some point as well.

Would you kindly point us to "Somewhere out there"? ...

Perhaps this is the post that Wuttevr is referring to? Plus this one a couple posts below.

[professor95]

weissmand wrote:
Prof - Quick side question. How does the new Ice maker work? How much do you produce and in what period of time. I'm thinking of getting one to use when I recharge daily. If I can make enough Ice in a couple of hours, it might be worth it.

Thanks!

josh

It can make up to a full bag (9lbs) in 24 hrs. Dumps a "cup" (8 cubes with a hole in the middle - about 1" x 1" round) of ice about every 10 minutes. Much faster than ice cube trays in the gas fridge freezer. Also, gives us more freezer room for ice cream. Keeps the two of us well supplied - even enough for evening frozen margaritas.

To keep things on topic - it even works when powered by a Chinese generator since it draws less than 400 watts of power.

We bought the less expensive and physically smaller Emerson, ($109.95 on sale, $129.00 regular at Target) rather than the larger and more expensive Magic Chef ($169.95).