3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Gdetrailer]

Professor,

Rather than making a new cap, remove the useless gas gauge (my gas gauge warped after the first tank full of fuel and no longer moves, it also leaked which I used plain black silicon to fix).

Make a plate to cover to replace the gas gauge.

Install valve on the plate, this valve could be used to siphon fuel from external tank.

Modify the existing gas cap with valve that can be opened or closed as needed.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

I've seen threads & posts in the past about folks running the gen in
the pickup bed going down the road for a couple of hours before they plan to stop - usually in extremely hot (& humid) areas where it may take that long to bring interior temps down to a "comfortable" level.
Arrive with a cool trailer.

Think the major concern was making a nice "run" of the power cord between pickup & trailer to make sure it didn't hang-up or snag.

As I recall, they were in the 5th Wheel forum. Maybe a search will turn something up.

BTW - It would seem that traffic (stop & go) wouldn't matter -
same as the genny sitting out on the ground somewhere.

~
JC

[tubular031]

professor95 wrote:

tubular031 wrote:
I have a hitch on the back of my 5er and am not going to be using it for a long time. If I get one of those hitch cargo platforms, can I strap my champ to that and run it while driving down the road with the AC blasting in the trailer?

My first reaction is probably not. I know a few motorhome people that drive with their gen running and a few 5er guys that have gens (onan and generac RV style) that run while driving. How will the little champ do during driving powering my AC?

Last year on the way to Emerald Isle, NC, the alternator on the truck gave out. I did not realize it until I glanced down at the volt meter, which was sitting on 11.5 VDC. I felt like we could make it to the campground if I turned off the A/C (about 100 miles).

Just out of Kinston, it started raining. I had no choice but to turn on the headlights and wipers. With 50 miles remaining, battery voltage was down to 11 and falling fast.

We stopped and I started the generator, which was on a rear carrier. (This was when we had the Regal TT) I plugged the 30 amp power cord into the genny. This kicked in the trailer's converter which began charging the camper battery which was also connected to the truck battery via a #10 copper cable.

Voltage immediately began to climb back toward normal. We drove the last 50 miles with not only headlights but the A/C in the truck running.

I see no problem with your plan. Give it a try and see how it works!

In your case with no power from the truck the converter charged everything ok. Now what happens when you have the alt on the truck making power and also the converter? Will that cause issues? I was thinking of putting a relay in there to break the connection from the truck when the 5er has 110. maybe I am just over thinking things again...

What do you think about putting the gen running in the bed of the truck while driving? When moving there is plently of air moving in there to keep it cool, I am a little worried about when you come to stop lights or long slow traffic jams.

[professor95]

mrfixit454 wrote:
but is there a way to plug up the vent holes/slots in the original cap so you don't have to drill the tank? Or is this simply impossible?

Possibly. But I would not want a tank that was permanently unvented.

As for drilling into the tank, it is also possible that the drilling is unnecessary. The Seal All should be strong enough to hold the new piece in place. I put the screws in because I was concerned about pulling the entire assembly off trying to remove a too tight cap.

There are other options that remain unexplored and untested - as I said this mod is not for everyone. It was one that fit my application and quickly addressed a concern with fuel seepage around the cap with the genny in a compartment. It also used readily available parts.

[mrfixit454]

professor95 wrote:

mrfixit454 wrote:
"The float needle is and always will be a potential failure point on gravity feed fuel systems that have several gallons of gasoline pushing down on them.

Of course, all one needs to do is turn off the petcock as directed and warned in the manual to almost totally reduce the incidence of leakage."
"

Have you guys considered an electric fuel transfer pump to avoid the gravity feed/needle and seat issue? a remote tank outside the "cave" could be used. A tank system kind of like the toyhaulers. The concern then becomes whether or not you want to be having dinner with a tank under you!

No need.

My genny's primary fuel source is LPG from either the RV tanks or a remote outside 5 gal tank. The use of gasoline is a secondary fuel in the event I am in a remote area where LPG refils or exchange tanks are not available.


My vent hose is not shown in these photos.

Do not forget to seal the fuel gauge as well. It is not air tight as installed.

Very cool setup and thanks for the detailed procedure... they are always a plus. I have not looked at my ELIM or EU3000 cap lately but is there a way to plug up the vent holes/slots in the original cap so you don't have to drill the tank? Or is this simply impossible?

[professor95]

tubular031 wrote:
I have a hitch on the back of my 5er and am not going to be using it for a long time. If I get one of those hitch cargo platforms, can I strap my champ to that and run it while driving down the road with the AC blasting in the trailer?

My first reaction is probably not. I know a few motorhome people that drive with their gen running and a few 5er guys that have gens (onan and generac RV style) that run while driving. How will the little champ do during driving powering my AC?

Last year on the way to Emerald Isle, NC, the alternator on the truck gave out. I did not realize it until I glanced down at the volt meter, which was sitting on 11.5 VDC. I felt like we could make it to the campground if I turned off the A/C (about 100 miles).

Just out of Kinston, it started raining. I had no choice but to turn on the headlights and wipers. With 50 miles remaining, battery voltage was down to 11 and falling fast.

We stopped and I started the generator, which was on a rear carrier. (This was when we had the Regal TT) I plugged the 30 amp power cord into the genny. This kicked in the trailer's converter which began charging the camper battery which was also connected to the truck battery via a #10 copper cable.

Voltage immediately began to climb back toward normal. We drove the last 50 miles with not only headlights but the A/C in the truck running.

I see no problem with your plan. Give it a try and see how it works!

[tvman44]

It should run just fine, might get a bit dirty. Try it and report back.

[tubular031]

good point, I did not think about the dirt that would end up all over it.

What about putting it in the bed of the truck and running while driving?

[MrWizard]

it should run

any problems will be related to 'hot pavement air' and 'air turbulence' will the air flow cool the genny, and will it need a cleaning when you get to the campground.

[tubular031]

I have a hitch on the back of my 5er and am not going to be using it for a long time. If I get one of those hitch cargo platforms, can I strap my champ to that and run it while driving down the road with the AC blasting in the trailer?

My first reaction is probably not. I know a few motorhome people that drive with their gen running and a few 5er guys that have gens (onan and generac RV style) that run while driving. How will the little champ do during driving powering my AC?

[professor95]

kausin komotion wrote:
professor

When you pre-drill the holes for the sheet metal screws how did you keep metal chips from falling in the gas tank?

They fall onto the inner lip. Just pick them out. Or, if they should go down inside, the removeavle strainer in the tank will catch them.

[MrWizard]

this exactly what the Honda ui1000-2000 crowd has been doing, buying or making extended run tanks, ( Honda sells these as a pricey option ), its been posted many times and its a VERY handy thing to have.

[kausin_komotion]

professor

When you pre-drill the holes for the sheet metal screws how did you keep metal chips from falling in the gas tank?

[tvman44]

Now that is a good idea.

[professor95]

I received two PM's about the vacuum fuel transfer tank thing I mentioned earlier.

No photos, but this is the principle:

Start with a 6 gallon plastic outboard motor fuel tank. You can find these at Wal-Mart under the Atwood brand name.

These fuel tanks have a pickup tube that goes to the bottom of the tank with a fuel connector on the top of the tank.

Run a OB motor fuel hose with a hand squeeze pump bulb that has an internal check valve from the remote tank to the SEALED generator fuel tank - preferably via a fitting on the generator gas cap. (Wal-mart also has the hoses).

Fill the generator gas tank at least 3/4 full of gas.
Fill the remote boat tank full of gas.
Open the vent on the boat tank gas cap.
Squeeze the pump ball on the boat tank fuel hose 3-4 times to "prime" the fuel line.

As gasoline is gravity feed from the generator tank a vacuum will be created inside the tank. This vacuum will pull gas from the remote tank into the generator tank refilling it with fresh fuel.

There is no need for the boat tank to be higher than the generator tank, but the system does work best with the boat tank elevated to the same level as the genny gas tank. An inverted milk crate makes a good elevation block.

The generator tank MUST BE TOTALLY SEALED for this to work. The modified PVC filler I showed and sealing the fuel gauge will create this on a Chinese 3,000 watt class unit. Substitute a barbed hose fitting for the butterfly valve I showed.

Runtimes can be extended by 3X with the second tank. Additional tanks can be "T'ed" into the fuel line.

Great for long power outages where genny must run for hours or days on end. Boat tank can safely be refilled with genny running if it is located six feet from generator (hose is about 6 feet).