3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[TeamSlacker]

Max49 wrote:

I got it from Cabellas for $279 with a free wheel kit. Any one know how that handle is supposed to mount? The directions with the wheel kit are not good, to say the least.

Ooh boy.. would be easier if I had a pic to post for you. If you look thru the Cabelas reviews of that gen, there is some descriptions on how to mount the handle for the wheel kit. Here's my best shot.
If you are standing on the exh side, you'll see the flat spot welded on the round tube near you. Take the U shaped bracket with two holes, and slide that over that flat spot on the frame, So that the 2 bolts will run up/down on the inside of the frame. Clamp that down with two nuts/bolts. Then all you have to do is slide the handle in from the 'left' side (still looking at exh).

At least I think this is how it was suposed to mount. It puts the handle in the most natural position for moving the gen, and keeps it away from the exhaust. I think the little black cap is suposed to hold the handle in the braket (my cap was broken). But that's ok, I'd rather just take the handle out when not in use, as it doesn't stick out as far.

[Max49]

Hey guys, I just joined the Chinese Gen group. I bought the Champion 46515 RV ready 4000/3500 Watt, for a backup auxilary genny to my 5500 Onan.
I only have 0.6 hr on it just playing around with it. I like it alot more than I like my old Coleman, Briggs& Stratton 5000 watt, 10 HP. It was obnoxiously loud. The Champion is about midway between a Honda and a contractor generator as far as loud goes, IMO. The Champion impressed me with it's detail and shouldered bolts.
It puts out about 123 volts with no load and drops to about 117/118 volts under a 3000 watt load. I hope that is good. The old Coleman used to drop to 108 volts. Even tho it was rated for 5000 watts, I never could figure out how to get more than 15 amps out of it because of the plug configuration. My Carrier 13,500 btu did'nt really like that, and would go into error mode sometimes.
I got it from Cabellas for $279 with a free wheel kit. Any one know how that handle is supposed to mount? The directions with the wheel kit are not good, to say the least. I also bought a Sendec hour meter for it which was an additional $40.
Here are acouple of links for the carb compliant Champion. $30 more at Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/Champion-Equipment-46534-Generator-Compliant/dp/B00295QCRO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&...

http://www.amazon.com/Champion-Equipment-46517-Generator-Compliant/dp/B00295MN2M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&...

These might be newer models. They look a little different but I didn't think it was worth $90 more so I bought from Cabelas.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

trumptman88 - think you may have missed one of the prof's posts a while back about more EPA requirements coming in 2011 - see pg 775.

Also a search will provide those CARB cert costs etc.
Try - "EPA requirements"

~

What happens in CA - will (sooner or later) go "50 state".
CARB *will* be the next EPA req's - you can count on it.

~

Also - OSHA will guarantee your safety from *everything*! :B
(In CA - it's called "Cal-OSHA" - yep, tighter req's too!)

JC

[trumptman88]

Well I was in a local Checker Auto while visiting some friends in Utah and wandered upon the Champion generators there. I already own one but looking a the newer ones reminded me of what is so wrong with our country in this day and age.



Look at all those stickers. Mine didn't have them but of course they are there now. Among the warnings, the one on the cap tells you to only use gasoline in it. The rest are of course dangers and warning that not having a brain or doing something could kill you if you are an idiot.

The second picture is of course showing how this generator cannot be sold in California. We have to have our own separate model of course that pretends to save the planet.



I wonder how much more it costs get CARB certification and what the real cost to benefit analysis happens to be.

[snarfattack]

wvbike_99 wrote:
That said, I am trying to determine what size of unit I need, The one I mentioned seems like a good deal, I am also looking at the Champion that Cabelas has on sale but If I read it correct it does not have the 220 volt plug, I will take another look, also seem like some you you guys are having to rewire the Champions and that is something I am not going to try.
Thanks everyone for your help so far,
ED

There are three basic types of generators in this class of around 3KW-4KW. First there are only 240v (220v) units supplying half the KW to each 120v leg. Depending on the manufacturing methods, they may or may not be rewired to 120v only. Second they have 240v/120v which are switchable from half the KW on each 120v leg to all the KW on one single 120v leg. Then lastly the 120v only type where all KW are on a single 120v leg. In this last type there are models that cannot be rewired to 240v mode and ones that can. If my memory serves me right, I think the Professor has looked at the waveform from many of these and found that the 120v ones that cannot be re-wired to 240v are the cleanest AC waveform available.

If you are looking for a small generator to run the RV and House emergency, you will want the second or third type. You need all KW on a single 120v leg. When looking at what you can run, be aware of startup amperage requirements. Even though the appliance label may say it only requires up to 15 amps (which is well under the 29A of a 3.5KW generator), it could easily require up to 40-50 amps for a couple microseconds to get an electric motor started which these small 3-4KW units cannot do. For example, I cannot run my 12a air compressor, as it doesn't have a hard start capacitor on it and it doesn't get enough amperage to get it going. My 6.5KW generator runs it fine.

Once you get into 5KW or higher most generators move into 240v only or rewire-able design.

HTH, Josh

[blacksea]

Pirate wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
DuroPower has their new 3500w silent DP3500RES electric start with remote, wheels and lots of tools and plugs (caps) for $399 with free shipping. Also they now have what looks just like the Honda 3600w Digital, electric start and remote @ 999 and WOW all the high end units now.

I like their 10KW diesel except I need the 50amp 4 prong plug, not the 3 prong like that unit has.

Not bad... not bad at all for the buck... think i'll get a little curious and see who they reversed engineered... if they did but this makes me wonder... how can this be a 2 stroke OHV... something's wrong.
http://www.duropower.com/item.asp?PID=22&FID=8&level=1

[Gdetrailer]

wvbike_99 writes "That said, I am trying to determine what size of unit I need, The one I mentioned seems like a good deal, I am also looking at the Champion that Cabelas has on sale but If I read it correct it does not have the 220 volt plug"

To determine the size of gen you need to take inventory of all the items you wish to run. Granted you most likely will not run all at one time but you need to get a good idea of what you have.

Items to consider.. Electric stove= 50A@240, gas or oil furnace=15A@120, Water well pump, some are 120V and some are 240V either way 15A@120 or 15A@240, fridge, deep freeze, sump pump, whole house A/C and so on.

Any motor related items you need to account for startup surge current.

I have a chinese 4KW which I use for camping and when not camping it is backup power for my house. It is a 120V only which limits me from running my 240V water well but otherwise it will power my wood burner fan for winter and some lights.

The 4KW gen even if it had 240V would almost not be big enough to start my water well (well is 280ft deep), 4KW@240 is 16.6A. I figured that to run my well I would need min of 5KW (20.8A@240)so it would be better to error a little larger so I myself would consider 6.5KW (27.083A@240)as my min for whole house backup.

[Pirate1]

Old & Slow wrote:
DuroPower has their new 3500w silent DP3500RES electric start with remote, wheels and lots of tools and plugs (caps) for $399 with free shipping. Also they now have what looks just like the Honda 3600w Digital, electric start and remote @ 999 and WOW all the high end units now.

I like their 10KW diesel except I need the 50amp 4 prong plug, not the 3 prong like that unit has.

[Old___Slow]

DuroPower has their new 3500w silent DP3500RES electric start with remote, wheels and lots of tools and plugs (caps) for $399 with free shipping. Also they now have what looks just like the Honda 3600w Digital, electric start and remote @ 999 and WOW all the high end units now.

[wvbike_99]

wvbike_99, You prefaced your comments with you know nothing about generators, so I'll preface my comments with: Hire a qualified electrician to install a home backup generator. You can kill yourself or someone else if you don't understand what you're doing... That said...

I said I know nothing about Generators, which is true, however I did build and wire my own house so I can take care of that part, but you are correct, a person needs to know what they are doing before doing this.
That said, I am trying to determine what size of unit I need, The one I mentioned seems like a good deal, I am also looking at the Champion that Cabelas has on sale but If I read it correct it does not have the 220 volt plug, I will take another look, also seem like some you you guys are having to rewire the Champions and that is something I am not going to try.
Thanks everyone for your help so far,
ED

[snarfattack]

wvbike_99, You prefaced your comments with you know nothing about generators, so I'll preface my comments with: Hire a qualified electrician to install a home backup generator. You can kill yourself or someone else if you don't understand what you're doing... That said...

You can run one, maybe two appliances reliably on that generator. I've run my gas furnace on my champion 3500watt during power outages. I've run our 13k btu AC on the RV without a hitch. I've just recently upgraded to a 6500watt for the house power backup so I can run the well pump and an appliance or two at the same time along with all the lights. Now to convert it to LP or NG so I don't have to store gasoline that deteriorates quickly.

[Pirate1]

Just finished a 3 day power outage here. Ran the old Elem 3000 for the entire time. This was the same one I bought down in FL and used for hurricanes Ivan and the next one I can't remember. It runs a bit rough, dropping voltage every now and then but it keeps running. I'm ready to replace it with a Generac 8KW model.

[tropical36]

wvbike_99 wrote:
OK, I have some questions. I know nothing about generators. I am considering getting a ETQ 3250 Watt Generator - 4000 surge wattage and FREE wheel kit!! from Home Depot. It has good reviews.
I am buying a gen to have a back up for power outages in winter and summer storms. Just went threw a bad weekend (No Power)
My questions are,
As far as my home what can I expect this gen to opperate.
REf, Freezer? Gas furnace, lights?
Just trying to get an idea of what 3000 watts will do.

Will this run my 13,000 btu ac on my TT?
I don't do any dry camping but if I am going to buy a Gen I want one that will at the least run my AC and lights on TT.
Thanks in advance.

Yep, some lights and one AC in your RV. You might even be able to make some coffee or even run the microwave independently, but thats pushing it.
3000w/120v = 25amps and the AC alone will probably draw 13-15a by itself. The main thing is having something thats quiet when camping which is why some purchase two 2KW Honda's or Yamaha's that will run together when needed.
For the house, just add up the power draw (watts) or the current draw (amps) and don't exceed the capacity of the gen set.

[wvbike_99]

OK, I have some questions. I know nothing about generators. I am considering getting a ETQ 3250 Watt Generator - 4000 surge wattage and FREE wheel kit!! from Home Depot. It has good reviews.
I am buying a gen to have a back up for power outages in winter and summer storms. Just went threw a bad weekend (No Power)
My questions are,
As far as my home what can I expect this gen to opperate.
REf, Freezer? Gas furnace, lights?
Just trying to get an idea of what 3000 watts will do.

Will this run my 13,000 btu ac on my TT?
I don't do any dry camping but if I am going to buy a Gen I want one that will at the least run my AC and lights on TT.
Thanks in advance.

[Gulfcoast]

Champions are still on sale at Cabela's until the end of the month, $279 with a free wheel kit... I love mine!

Now if I could only sell my HONDA...