3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Skibane]

professor95 wrote:

That is a strange looking muffler. I see 8 holes facing back and what appears to be a removable end plate.

I believe that's a heat shield bolted to a small cylindrical muffler.

Doesn't look particularly quiet...

[professor95]

jlaustin wrote:

The muffler design looks different from most of the clones. Rated at 70 db!

That is a strange looking muffler. I see 8 holes facing back and what appears to be a removable end plate. Perhaps a redesign based on the newest EPA and CARB emissions requirements?

The rest of it is "typical" Chinese 3,000 watt, GX200 engine, open frame, synchronous generator design.

[rustycopperball]

70 decibals? not very quiet!

[jlaustin]

gasser9 wrote:
http://www.rvtoyoutlet.com/p-RVT1149.html

Could not get the pics to copy but the link works!!

Just found this, this morning!








3000 Watt Portable Generator Camping Generator


Average Review: Not yet rated
CLICK HERE to write an online review!

Item #: RVT1149
Ship Wt: 90.00 lbs.
Package Type: Full Retail

List Price: $399.99
Our Price: $249.99
You Save: $150.00 (38%)

Quantity:








Click the Images Above to Enlarge Them.
See More Images Below the Product Description!


Quick Info: Product Details | Features & Specs. | Additional Images
Product Details

One of the newest in the Starter USA line of Generators. Starter USA has been producing and perfecting their low cost, high quality solution to generators for years now. Why buy brand name when you are simply buying the name...Quality and precision you can count on at a price that cannot be beat. You get power and portability all in one. With up to 3000 watts of power this generator is the perfect addition for many outdoor needs. This EPA approved Engine use ecology conscious technology that allows it to run better, run quieter and last longer while allowing an easy pull start and less maintenance. Whether you are out camping and do not want to miss your favorite show, want to entertain the kids with a DVD, need to power your blender or other accessories for tailgating, power tools on the job, etc; the possibilities offered by its size and versatility matched by that of our low outlet pricing make this generator not only the perfect addition for any outdoor enthusiast but the perfect choice.So what are you waiting for? Buy our High-Quality Professional 3000W Gasoline Generator today!

Features & Specifications


6.5 HP/3600 RPM industrial engine
OHV forced air-cooled, 4 stroke
Output: 120V, 60 HZ AC, 12 V DC
Peak Power:3500 watts
Rated Power: 3000 watts
15 L gasoline Tank Capacity
.6L oil capacity
Operated Oil: SF or higher grade
ignition system: T.C.I.
starting system: recoil hand operated
Continuous operating hours: 7
Sound rating: 70db @7 meters
3500 Watt peak
Back Up Generator
Dimensions 23 3/8" x 16 5/8" x 16 3/4"

The muffler design looks different from most of the clones. Rated at 70 db!

[gasser9]

http://www.rvtoyoutlet.com/p-RVT1149.html

Could not get the pics to copy but the link works!!

Just found this, this morning!








3000 Watt Portable Generator Camping Generator


Average Review: Not yet rated
CLICK HERE to write an online review!

Item #: RVT1149
Ship Wt: 90.00 lbs.
Package Type: Full Retail

List Price: $399.99
Our Price: $249.99
You Save: $150.00 (38%)

Quantity:








Click the Images Above to Enlarge Them.
See More Images Below the Product Description!


Quick Info: Product Details | Features & Specs. | Additional Images
Product Details

One of the newest in the Starter USA line of Generators. Starter USA has been producing and perfecting their low cost, high quality solution to generators for years now. Why buy brand name when you are simply buying the name...Quality and precision you can count on at a price that cannot be beat. You get power and portability all in one. With up to 3000 watts of power this generator is the perfect addition for many outdoor needs. This EPA approved Engine use ecology conscious technology that allows it to run better, run quieter and last longer while allowing an easy pull start and less maintenance. Whether you are out camping and do not want to miss your favorite show, want to entertain the kids with a DVD, need to power your blender or other accessories for tailgating, power tools on the job, etc; the possibilities offered by its size and versatility matched by that of our low outlet pricing make this generator not only the perfect addition for any outdoor enthusiast but the perfect choice.So what are you waiting for? Buy our High-Quality Professional 3000W Gasoline Generator today!

Features & Specifications


6.5 HP/3600 RPM industrial engine
OHV forced air-cooled, 4 stroke
Output: 120V, 60 HZ AC, 12 V DC
Peak Power:3500 watts
Rated Power: 3000 watts
15 L gasoline Tank Capacity
.6L oil capacity
Operated Oil: SF or higher grade
ignition system: T.C.I.
starting system: recoil hand operated
Continuous operating hours: 7
Sound rating: 70db @7 meters
3500 Watt peak
Back Up Generator
Dimensions 23 3/8" x 16 5/8" x 16 3/4"

[gasser9]

It is a P3200ie Marketed by Cummins Onan(red), John Deere (green), or Subaru (yellow). I bought at auction for $595 with 1 hour on it it is only 105 lbs with battery, the P4300ie is 140lbs less $ & more watts than the similar Yammie &
Honda. Quieter Too!!!!

[ol_Bombero-JC]

professor95 wrote:

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

professor95 wrote:

gasser9 wrote:
byates
I have the 3200ie it has served me well for 800 hours, it is a similar unit with the 6.5 hp subaru & a solid 24 amps at 12o v only

When you say 3200ie is that a Cummings Onan P3200ie generator?

Prof - is your Volvo HDT powered by a Cummings or a Cummins? :B

(or maybe a DeeTroit?)

~

None of the three choices given. It is all Volvo (D12).

I'm not quiet shore how well a spell checker does on hear all of the thyme. 😉

OK you're excused!

All the ISX (etc.) boys will understand . . . and -

ya know - I thought of that (the D12) but couldn't think of an uncensored ("Moderator acceptable") way to massacre "Volvo". 😉

~

JC

[professor95]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

professor95 wrote:

gasser9 wrote:
byates
I have the 3200ie it has served me well for 800 hours, it is a similar unit with the 6.5 hp subaru & a solid 24 amps at 12o v only

When you say 3200ie is that a Cummings Onan P3200ie generator?

Prof - is your Volvo HDT powered by a Cummings or a Cummins? :B

(or maybe a DeeTroit?)

~

None of the three choices given. It is all Volvo (D12).

I'm not quiet shore how well a spell checker does on hear all of the thyme. 😉

[ol_Bombero-JC]

professor95 wrote:

gasser9 wrote:
byates
I have the 3200ie it has served me well for 800 hours, it is a similar unit with the 6.5 hp subaru & a solid 24 amps at 12o v only

When you say 3200ie is that a Cummings Onan P3200ie generator?

Prof - is your Volvo HDT powered by a Cummings or a Cummins? :B

(or maybe a DeeTroit?)

~

[professor95]

gasser9 wrote:
byates
I have the 3200ie it has served me well for 800 hours, it is a similar unit with the 6.5 hp subaru & a solid 24 amps at 12o v only

When you say 3200ie is that a Cummings Onan P3200ie generator?

Bill,
If you are going to spend that much on a generator you might consider a few extra $$$ for the P4300ie. At a 3,800 watts continuous rating you will get 31 amps.

[gasser9]

byates
I have the 3200ie it has served me well for 800 hours, it is a similar unit with the 6.5 hp subaru & a solid 24 amps at 12o v only

[professor95]

byates wrote:

professor95 wrote:

byates wrote:
Champion's generator with the 389cc/13hp engine is advertised at 6500/7800 watts with no posted amperage output.

Does anyone know if the champion amps are posted anywhere? The manual says there is a 25amp breaker on the 30amp RV outlet, but I need something more concrete than that.
I can't comment on Onan's service, since my Homesite 6500 has been problem free.

you can divide the wattage by the voltage to get the amperage. Thus, 3,500 watts / 120 VAC = 29 amps.

But, as you noted, the circuit breaker for the RV outlet is 25 amps and the breaker for the duplex outlet is 20 amps. Those will be your limiting factors. The generator will provide the full amperage of the breakers.

I understand the formula for deriving amperage from wattage and voltage-basic physics learned in high school. What I don't understand is why the amperage is not specifically stated, as other manufacturers do. 3500 watts from that size engine doesn't seem plausible. If indeed 3500 watts are being produced, what is being sacrificed to attain it? It is noted in previous posts, that many believe the Champion 3500 is only capable of producing 2600 watts, which would translate to 21.5 amps. Before I buy, I would like to know for sure what amperage the unit is actually producing. As I stated in a previous post on a different subject, factual data is important to me.

byates

I think you will find that I was the one that said 2,800 watts was the "dependable" power delivery for any of the Chinese built 3,500 watt generators. For a 3,000 watt, figure on 2,200 to 2,400.

These numbers are not the maximum you can get out of the generator, just what is realistic for sustained use. BTW - these are sea level expectations for locations such as where I live (elevation 162 feet). Take the generator to Denver and you can expect even less power.

Actually, 6.5HP is equal to 4,781 watts of equivalent power. But, that rated 6.5HP is not just producing electricity. Significant energy is diverted to heat and magnetic radiation. So, if the power conversion factor is .7 then we can expect 3,350 watts of electrical power. At .6 it will be 2,868, which is to me a much more realistic number for continuous use.

I cannot tell you why all the manufacturers do not list amps use. Perhaps we need to send an e-mail to some and ask?

As for your wanting to know exactly what to expect in the way of power delivery...... well, I can't tell you that either. All I can tell you is while a 3,500 watt generator can deliver 29 amps at 120 volts it is not going to sit there and do it all day in extreme temperatures like I have experienced this summer. 18 to 21 amps is a good number to rely on.

BTW - I do NOT know of any non-commercial generator in the 3,000 watt class that WILL deliver its advertised power continuously at all elevations and outside temperatures.

Sorry I cannot give you the exact numbers you are looking for.

[byates]

professor95 wrote:

byates wrote:
Champion's generator with the 389cc/13hp engine is advertised at 6500/7800 watts with no posted amperage output.

Does anyone know if the champion amps are posted anywhere? The manual says there is a 25amp breaker on the 30amp RV outlet, but I need something more concrete than that.
I can't comment on Onan's service, since my Homesite 6500 has been problem free.

you can divide the wattage by the voltage to get the amperage. Thus, 3,500 watts / 120 VAC = 29 amps.

But, as you noted, the circuit breaker for the RV outlet is 25 amps and the breaker for the duplex outlet is 20 amps. Those will be your limiting factors. The generator will provide the full amperage of the breakers.

I understand the formula for deriving amperage from wattage and voltage-basic physics learned in high school. What I don't understand is why the amperage is not specifically stated, as other manufacturers do. 3500 watts from that size engine doesn't seem plausible. If indeed 3500 watts are being produced, what is being sacrificed to attain it? It is noted in previous posts, that many believe the Champion 3500 is only capable of producing 2600 watts, which would translate to 21.5 amps. Before I buy, I would like to know for sure what amperage the unit is actually producing. As I stated in a previous post on a different subject, factual data is important to me.

byates

[jlaustin]

professor95 wrote:

bill h wrote:
Perhaps the coach battery could be used to start the generator. Since there are already wires connecting the coach, a pair of DC wires heavy enough for a momentary start load wouldn't be a big deal with Andersons.

Bill, that is what I have done with my 40008. A #10 copper wire is sufficient. The only difference is when I press the start button inside the coach I engage a solenoid that connects the battery so remote electric starting can take place. The solenoid disconnects the generator from the battery at all other times so there is no leakage or parasitic loss through the generator. Additionally, the generator coil never provides any charge current to the coach batteries.

The Professor talked me into doing the same thing with my FW and receiver-mounted genset. Per his advice, I used #10 wire and put a 30 amp auto-reset circuit breaker in the circuit and backed that up with a 40 amp Maxi-fuse. This allowed me to eliminate the genset's battery, so there is some weight savings and one less battery to maintain! I use a wireless remote starter to start the genset that utilizes a solenoid so I don't suffer any battery drain, either. I also added a "Charge Wizard" module to my converter and now it is a true "intelligent charger" for my golf cart batts in the FW. I can safely leave the FW plugged into the 30 amp shoreline and that keeps the batts charged.
Regards,
John

[professor95]

bill h wrote:
Perhaps the coach battery could be used to start the generator. Since there are already wires connecting the coach, a pair of DC wires heavy enough for a momentary start load wouldn't be a big deal with Andersons.

Bill, that is what I have done with my 40008. A #10 copper wire is sufficient. The only difference is when I press the start button inside the coach I engage a solenoid that connects the battery so remote electric starting can take place. The solenoid disconnects the generator from the battery at all other times so there is no leakage or parasitic loss through the generator. Additionally, the generator coil never provides any charge current to the coach batteries.