3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

bill h wrote:


I didn't see anything about "Load Management" there. What is it, exactly, as applied to the Champion?

This model does not require you to plug and unplug any loads before starting or stopping. Once it starts it will not provide power for about 30 seconds - this gives time for the engine speed to stabilize and come up to operating speed. Same when you shut it down with the remote. It automatically sheds the load before shutting down and dropping engine speed.

It is a built-in time delay relay that turns on or off the AVR. Actually, pretty cool - especially for a remote electric start and stop generator.

[bill_h]

professor95 wrote:
It's baaack!!!!

The Champion model 46538 with electric start, remote control and load management.

Check Costco on-line:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11531523&search=champion+generators&Mo=1&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search?=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=champion+generators&Ntt=champion+generators&No=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

$419.00 including shipping.

That is only $120 more than an off-the-shelf non-electric start model with no wheel kit at Tractor Supply.

clickie

I didn't see anything about "Load Management" there. What is it, exactly, as applied to the Champion?

[professor95]

It's baaack!!!!

The Champion model 46538 with electric start, remote control and load management.

Check Costco on-line:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11531523&search=champion+generators&Mo=1&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search〈=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=champion+generators&Ntt=champion+generators&No=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

$419.00 including shipping.

That is only $120 more than an off-the-shelf non-electric start model with no wheel kit at Tractor Supply.

[chiefward]

I purchased a Lifan generator from HD when they had them on sale and was extremely pleased with the electric start unit, until it developed a severe oil leak. I took it to an authorized repair center in Atlanta for repair. The repair center could not get any cooperation from the Lifan folks so the repair center suggested I return the unit to HD since it was still under the 30 day return policy. HD was completely out of stock so I got my money back and bought me a Champion for less that half the price of the Lifan.

[jdiffend]

professor95 wrote:
OK - this is "hearsay" not first hand experience. I have received some messages from Lifan generator owners that say they are having a difficult time getting parts or service. Some have had to pay high freight charges to ship them to an authorized repair center and complained of extremely slow return times. I would venture to say it depends on if a servicing dealer is close to where you live or not.

Well, one of the claims of Lifan motorcycle owners had to do with availability of parts. I guess generators are treated differently.
The motorcycle crowd tends to do their own service, so the service center issues don't surprise me.

[professor95]

jdiffend wrote:
Anyone try the Lifan generators? I did a search and they were suggested in a couple threads but nobody said they actually owned one.

They are the only gens I know of that allow you to link 2 different sized inverter gens together.

And before the same people say who are they and suggest Honda, Lifan has a pretty good reputation as far as Chinese motorcycles go. The motorcycles have clones of Honda engines and I've been reading about their motorcycles for at least 10 years so it's not like they just popped up out of nowhere. I certainly heard of their name before I heard of Champion.
That doesn't mean their generators are any good though which is why I'm asking.

OK - this is "hearsay" not first hand experience. I have received some messages from Lifan generator owners that say they are having a difficult time getting parts or service. Some have had to pay high freight charges to ship them to an authorized repair center and complained of extremely slow return times. I would venture to say it depends on if a servicing dealer is close to where you live or not.

Their generators are great if you don't need parts or service.

Again - NOT something I experienced - only what several owners have shared.

Champion Power Equipment did not become a company until 2004 or 2005, Their product line-up has not included a lot of the power equipment items some Chinese re-sellers offer like those made by Lifan. It is only in the past few years that their name has become better know in the generator market. They have built a reputation for excellent customer service and parts availability.

[jdiffend]

Anyone try the Lifan generators? I did a search and they were suggested in a couple threads but nobody said they actually owned one.

They are the only gens I know of that allow you to link 2 different sized inverter gens together.

And before the same people say who are they and suggest Honda, Lifan has a pretty good reputation as far as Chinese motorcycles go. The motorcycles have clones of Honda engines and I've been reading about their motorcycles for at least 10 years so it's not like they just popped up out of nowhere. I certainly heard of their name before I heard of Champion.
That doesn't mean their generators are any good though which is why I'm asking.

[jlaustin]

professor95 wrote:

Kids today just don't know what fun they missed! :B

Years ago, after seemingly thousands of pulls on recoil starters on recalcitrant lawnmowers (making the kingly sum of $5.00 for mowing HUGE yards that took all day!), I STILL marvel that modern small engines usually start on the first or second pull!
Regards,
John

[professor95]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

"jlaustin" - (The pics) -

Besides the great RV building and crane utilization, the prof got too caught up in that crane bracket to make a much more important "observation" . . .

What's *in* the HANGAR ??

~

JC

I discovered what was in the hangar much earlier than the crane photos.

You see, John is another one of those guys that had a profession where your co-workers felt that your finger nails were never suppose to get dirt under them. When I discovered that he was just as much of a "Pigpen" (referring to the Peanuts character) as I and actually enjoyed tearing up, fixing or riding in/on a machine as much as I do (vs. Opera or Cribbage) I was elated.

As for the solid lifters; I even went so far as to take the "T" lifters out of flat head engines like the Cushman Eagle and carefully grind down the end to add clearance when needed, or weld a little bead on the end to grind appropriately to reduce clearance. Shucks, JC, I even tried my own cam grinding using a bench grinder and file after welding on extra mass. I had no real clue what I was doing other than attempting to increase lift, timing or dwell in hopes it might run faster. I even remember "accidentally" getting the alignment dots between the cam gear and crank off one dot trying to put it all back together in the dark and discovering the next day that while it lacked lower end power it would crank out noticeably more speed on the top end.

Ahaa...... the infamous kick starter launch. Yes, long before Sputnik many of us were on the verge of entering outer space after trying to start our M/C's without proper piston positioning. The second mistake in such a scenario was standing up on the kick starter with a stiff leg and jumping so as to allow all of your weight to push the kick starter down.

While not a first-hand experience, I remember seeing many an arm in a sling from hand starting old tractors or early T model Fords. The electric starter was as great of an invention as the GPS.

Kids today just don't know what fun they missed! :B

[jlaustin]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

"jlaustin" - (The pics) -

Besides the great RV building and crane utilization, the prof got too caught up in that crane bracket to make a much more important "observation" . . .

What's *in* the HANGAR ??

~

JC

That's where my "baby" resides, a '99 C206H (Cessna Stationair). There's also a RANS Coyote kitplane that belongs to one of my neighbors.
Regards,
John
(N206JA)

[ol_Bombero-JC]

professor95 wrote:

5akman wrote:

As you probably know, the exhaust valve is held open a crack while starting the engine to drop compression (easier pulling on the rope)

Us old poots like JC, The Wiz, Bill and I (only naming a few :B) grew up on solid lifter motorcycle and car engines. Valve adjustment is as natural as scratching our butts.

Hey!

What the heck, Prof . . . .

I resemble that remark!

Compression release:
Only those who have dared start an old (pre-compression release) single M/C without appropriate piston "positioning" know the results of such seemingly small innovations!
My foot (leg) hurts just thinking about it.
(However, you *did* learn to master the technique quickly, once "bitten").

Or - grew up in the days when real LEO "Motor Officers" rode kick-start Harleys, and watched the same by the men in blue - with disastrous results.

Solid Lifters:
Yeah - the first 283 Chevy engine I rebuilt, a guy by the same of Sig Erson (Iskendiarian's -then- shop manager) convinced me to use a solid lifter camshaft!

I had the opportunity to tell Ed (personally) not to long ago - just what a dumb move (on my part) that was, LOL!

The M/C engines were lots quicker - even fun.

~

"jlaustin" - (The pics) -

Besides the great RV building and crane utilization, the prof got too caught up in that crane bracket to make a much more important "observation" . . .

What's *in* the HANGAR ??

~

JC

[professor95]

5akman wrote:
I posted a while back about not being able to keep my Champ running in the bed of my truck while underway. I'm not sure if the vent line (CA model) is plugged up or not but it now runs just fine for the 340 mile round trip by cracking open the fuel cap a bit.

With it running 6 hrs every Saturday on the way to the farmers market and back, this unit should last me how long? At what hour usage do I want to do the valve adjustment?

Lance

I think Mr. Wizard holds the record on running hours. Something like 3,000? Hopefully he will give us the right number.

I have found that an initial valve lash adjustment around 100 hours is all my units have needed. Of course, I do not have thousands of hours on them yet.

As you probably know, the exhaust valve is held open a crack while starting the engine to drop compression (easier pulling on the rope) and then as the engine picks up speed a counter weight moves the device that raises the valve out of the way. On most of my adjustments it is the exhaust valve that is off a little from break-in wear. The intake seems to stay the same.

The need for adjustment comes from wear and the stretching of the valve stem. Apparently the metals used in these engine's valves don't stretch much. CPE also uses a different rocker assembly than other GX200 engine builders that is not as subject to wear and excess valve lash.

Anyway, don't worry about them too much. Most of the time someone screws up the adjustment worse than it was before they started - unless they have experience in how to correctly adjust lash.

Us old poots like JC, The Wiz, Bill and I (only naming a few :B) grew up on solid lifter motorcycle and car engines. Valve adjustment is as natural as scratching our butts.

[5akman]

I posted a while back about not being able to keep my Champ running in the bed of my truck while underway. I'm not sure if the vent line (CA model) is plugged up or not but it now runs just fine for the 340 mile round trip by cracking open the fuel cap a bit.

With it running 6 hrs every Saturday on the way to the farmers market and back, this unit should last me how long? At what hour usage do I want to do the valve adjustment?

Lance

[jasult]

pritch272 wrote:
Now that's a good idea.

Now all you need is a cover for it when it's not in use.

I for got that pic so here it is :B

[tvman44]

That is neat and well thought out.