3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[tvman44]

max49 my leaf blower did the same as yours and some Seafoam solved that problem, purrs like a kitten now and runs full throttle like it should.

[Max49]

I hear you Professor, and agree. Its funny you used your leaf blower as an example. My Polan is doing the same thing but if I put the choke about a 1/4 on , it winds out good , for now any way.

[professor95]

There was a time when "WE" (the consumer) had the ability to not only rebuild small engine carburetors but to adjust/make changes in the jetting.

Those days are gone - and it is going to get worse!

As an example - my leaf blower was not running "at speed". I could tell it was not receiving the needed air/fuel ratio. But, the two adjustment needles were capped and surrounded by a cast metal shoulder to prohibit any user adjustment.

When you run into this you have three choices:

• Throw the thing away and get another
• Spend more than it is worth on a new carburetor
• Hack into it, defeating the mechanism to prevent adjustment.

Use of a Dremmel tool with a small round diamond cutting blade and prying off metal caps covering the screws and then filing notches so a screwdriver would fit the screw caps gave me access to the adjustments. 1/2 turn of the high speed jet adjustment and all is once again fine.

This is our EPA and CARB at work. They do NOT want anyone beyond the factory to be able to work on or adjust a small engine carburetor. Jets are non-replaceable, access ports are sealed and even parts are unavailable. You either do it their way or throw it away.

The next step is to require engines to be built so they cannot be disassembled. Bolts that tear up the part when they are removed, special licensing for repair shops, requirements for labels showing certification numbers for rebuilt equipment. If they have their way (which they will) all of our small air cooled engines will be "throw away" items that are unserviceable.

This is no joke. It is all real. Hang on to your old stuff as it will be the only ones you can take apart and fix when they go awry.

[jlaustin]

Cox89XJ wrote:
professor, I hope the carburetor fixes it. If it does I'm already planning to add an inline filter. Thanks.

I have an old open-frame Generac 3500w genset. Every year it would refuse to start, I'd take it to the small engine shop, they'd do a "carburetor overhaul" and things would be fine for a year again. The last time it happened, I had gained some knowledge from this forum and took the carb apart myself, cleaned it, and the engine ran fine (plugged jet). Since then, I added an in-line filter and have never had another problem.
Regards,
John

[Cox89XJ]

professor, I hope the carburetor fixes it. If it does I'm already planning to add an inline filter. Thanks.

[tvman44]

Prof. I must be about your age as I remember the Japanese junk that flooded this country like china is doing now. Even thou I hate chinese ST tires I love my chinese Champion ginny.

[professor95]

Cox89XJ wrote:
I now consider the Chinese generators in the same class as the Chinese made ST tires. Sorry to burst yall’s bubble. You do get what you pay for.

SNIP

The spark plug looked like it is flooding. BTW the Honda spark plug was a NGK and the one in the Chinese junk, I can't read Chinese.

I'm betting you cannot read Japanese either. :B

I'm with you all the way on the OEM Chinese ST tires. I have little to no confidence in Chinese Carsile, Merit, LongChin, etc. due to shortcuts often taken in the manufacturing process.

But, the track record for the Chinese generator engines has been impressive. You must remember that the engines are clones of the well designed Honda GX series.

While we tend to blame problems such as yours on "Chinese Junk" it is often "American Trash" that becomes lodged in the carburetor jets. You can thank our American EPA and CARB for making the carburetors unserviceable by owners.

Unfortunately Sea Foam or other such solvents will not remove dirt that becomes lodged in the jets. The stuff works great on tar and gum, but most solids do not dissolve.

While there is a fine mesh screen on the fuel shut-off (petcock) up inside the tank, it does no harm to add enough extra fuel line so that you can insert an in-line fuel filter.

In a recent post I spoke of paradigm shifts. I couldn't help but smile after reading your post. I am old enough to remember when we thought of products from Japan as being junk. Now, we consider them to be high quality. I am no fan of China, it's Communist Government, poor human rights record and support for North Korea. But, none the less, China has proven it has the ability to produce high quality goods and products. China is becoming the new Japan as the paradigm once again shifts.

[Cox89XJ]

MrWizard wrote:
sounds like a problem with the speed.governor & linkage
change the oil, run it a.couple hrs with no load it might loosen up,
spray all the throttle linkage and governor with a good penetrating "OIL" like Kroil, Pbs blaster, jb80 etc.

I've checked most of that, I just ordered a carburetor online for approx. $35 dollars, hope that fixes it. If it doesn it's going to the junk yard.

[MrWizard]

sounds like a problem with the speed.governor & linkage
change the oil, run it a.couple hrs with no load it might loosen up,
spray all the throttle linkage and governor with a good penetrating "OIL" like Kroil, Pbs blaster, jb80 etc.

[Old___Slow]

Cox89XJ wrote:
~ snip ~ I now consider the Chinese generators in the same class as the Chinese made ST tires. Sorry to burst yall’s bubble. You do get what you pay for.

No bubble broken here. Paid two something for my Champion C46540 years ago and she still purrs like a new born kitten. Only one small oil leak. Would buy again in a heart beat. Unlike the new Inverters, it's like the old model T's and @77 (me) can still do a little wrenchin' if needed.

Hope you find a easy fix and enjoy happy campin'

[tvman44]

Sorry you had problems with your chinese gen set but there are many more of us with chinese gensets that are very happy with them and satisfied. You can get a bad on in anything. Try some Seafoam in your gas to clean your carb.

[Cox89XJ]

Since this is a Chinese Generator thread, I’m going to report my experience. I bought a Kenowa 4,500 electric start approx. less than 2 years ago. I’ve converted it to be only 115volt so the two sets of windings would be suppling the load to run the A/C on my camper. All went well with that and no complaint with the power output. I’ve played with it around the house and ran it every month, but the very first time I “really” needed it, now it won’t run. It will not come up to the correct rpm’s. I suppose carburetor problems. I now consider the Chinese generators in the same class as the Chinese made ST tires. Sorry to burst yall’s bubble. You do get what you pay for.

Edit: I've taken the carburator apart and took the jets out and cleaned those, put it back together, even took the spark plug out of my Honda push mower and it still does the same thing. Will not come up to speed. The spark plug looked like it is flooding. BTW the Honda spark plug was a NGK and the one in the Chinese junk, I can't read Chinese.

[pritch272]

No, no dental floss in the sewing machine, I had hand sewn the rips in the boat cover with a large needle and dental floss, until I finally got a boat shed. For the sewing machine, bought some really tough thread (forget what kind, cannot break it by hand without almost cutting your fingers off...) and double sewn the generator cover. Thanks for the idea for the top.

[professor95]

pritch272 wrote:
Only remaining item is to get it flat so water doesn't pool on it.

It looks very nice. Are you using dental floss in the sewing machine? I never tried that.

Several years back I had a similar problem with water pooling on top of my cover. I made a plywood inner lid with cleat strip to keep it in place. Here are a couple of photos.

[pritch272]

blkfe wrote:

pritch272 wrote:
Prof, it looks like you used composite for the floor of the cargo rack, I like that idea.

Ironically, just today pulled from the attic the old boat cover, (I don't need it anymore as I keep the boat in a 36 foot garage), the old cover has seen 7 years of use, and has been sewn many times (with dental floss). Anyhow, I needed a new cover for the champ as the old one (a cheap grill cover) tore, so I started cutting out pieces. Got out the sewing machine and am making a cover. Champion wanted $24.95 for a cover, plus almost $12 to ship it. Not going to pay that, not now, anyway. I'll post some pics when finished.

Growing up on a farm we always "made" everything we could. To this day it just about kills me to take a vehicle anywhere for repair. Buy all means, post pictures of your finished cover!

Brad

Took me long enough to get a picture, better late than never!



Added some grommets at the bottom, got 4 small snap links from HF (not installed in this picture) to hook the cover to the basket so it won't come off while driving down the road. Only remaining item is to get it flat so water doesn't pool on it. I made it a little bigger on purpose.

Fired it up yesterday to run the compressor to blow out the lines, forecast calls for mid to upper 20's this next week, so I figured it was time. Started on the 2nd pull. I also tested the new Vornado VH2 VH2 Heater on it and the heater worked great, so I had a decent load on the generator for about 45 minutes.