3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[HobbyTalk]

I just got a Champion 3500/4000 genny. I thought I would try it out and see how well it started my 15K btu A/C and when I hooked my Progressive Ind. EMS it is throwing an open ground error. Any ideas? Thanks!

[Cox89XJ]

Just got back from a few days boondocking. I noticed the last day of our trip, when I started the generator, it would miss a little then smooth out. When I got home I checked the spark plug and it was okay, then cleaned the air filter and the engine would still do the same thing. So this morning I reset the valves. Runs good now. I could not find the setting for my Kenowa 4500E model so I set the valves to the specifications that Champion uses. .006 for the intake and .008 for the exhaust. The gen only has somewhere in the vicinity of 75 hours on it, but it definitely needed the valves adjusted. The intake was too loose and the exhaust was too tight.
This thread needed a bump anyway.

[Old___Slow]

Deleted:

[fellow_traveler]

Hi Floyd, Yes the GenTent does make a difference in the volume. I purchased a db gun and hoped to try it out but the memorial day outing is going to have to wait as it is predicted to rain and possible hail and lighting storms at the lake :-(. I will say I have an electric start champ with the poor mans drain kit and killavolt attached to . When I take the fifth wheel Wildcat RKLS 2002 out we put the Genny in the back of the bed behind the rear passenger window. ( Chevy 3/4 hd silverado 6L gas engine ls club cab) The Position gives some easy access to the plug-ins on the Genny . When I do get out in a couple of weeks I will take heat gun and db gun test for sure. The ear is the best gauge I think and there is a real noticeable sound reduction and it hides the Genny from prying eyes and the sound police out of my direction! So stay tuned Ron PS No I don't mind the poor weather but my camping buddy shes my wife of 35yrs is a teacher and she is still teaching this week so I need give her time to get ready for the summer 😉 PS Norwegian and German too! And yes Floyd my son Ryan Just graduated from collage magna cum loude with a BS in Computer Science with programing as his field!

[professor95]

We spent the weekend out on the water. As we were moving down the river I noticed what appeared to be an old sinking houseboat beached in a cove off the main channel.

I decided to take a closer look.

The tide was out so the cove was extremely shallow. I got as far in as I could without digging our boat's motor into the mud.

That's when I noticed a Champion 3,500 watt generator sitting on the inclined deck of the houseboat. For some reason I just found it funny.

No, I did not salvage the generator. I am sure it will eventually be stolen or rescued by the boat's owner. Since the boat is out of the navigational part of the river, it could stay there forever.

[Old___Slow]

fellow traveler,

Say Ron, I have many friends in Great Falls that might know Ryan, if he is your son. Good to hear the report you now own the Gentent. Tell us more about it. Does it make a difference in the sound? Welcome to the fold.

[fellow_traveler]

Hello This is the web site to purchase SuperGen Tent, a Lazy Mans Oil Drain kit, and a KillAVolt I have them all they are great! http://supergenproducts.com/ We enjoy ours. It does make the oil question a quick look and you can see the status. The tent also does quiet the gen and still lets it breathe to get rid of the heat without extra fans. I got the killavolt just to protect my trailer equipment! Now I have peace of mind on my trailer. Ps I don't work for this company, just a satisfied customer. I would like to get one of the electric remote start Genny from Champion! I saw one on u tube Its pretty cool not having to go outside to start and stop the gen! Lets go camping! Fellow traveler PS I have been watching this site for many years and liked the ideas and suggestions your guys are quite a impressive bunch!;-)

[Old___Slow]

bill h wrote:

professor95 wrote:

bill h wrote:


I have never measured a 3500 watt open frame generator that even came close to NPS noise standards. Not Chinese or Honda or any others.

You might want to check calibration of your meter. 😉

OW!

My meter is a Radio Shack digital. It is checked more or less once a year against lab calibrated and certified meters at work, and is always within one db in the 50 to 80 db range. These are not scientific checks, just holding them side by side and comparing. Since I retired, I have to rely on others to do the test, as Homeland Security won't let me in the hangar any more. 😞

Camping life did a comparison test a while back, and their meter readings were the same as mine for an EU2000i, as were the numbers by a very controlled test done by the University of Alabama acoustics department. It has also agreed with a couple of other posts on RV.net, which were under more controlled conditions than mine.

All tests were made with an RV close by, so there could have been some reflection. I purposely do not take readings where RVs are close together to avoid inconsistencies.

My tests are not terribly scientific, but just readings taken in the field on dog walks or whatever, but they seem to be consistent.

My readings are usually on rocky desert, so it is pretty much comparing apples to apples. Is it possible that your readings were taken in a more absorbent environment which would make the readings lower? I get lower readings on grass, but my notes don't have any numbers on that.

Somehow, there is a beautiful symmetry in using a Chinese meter to measure a Chinese generator.

However, since you bring it up, (if my son ever returns it), I will have it checked again. It is probably about time, anyway.

If I decide to let him keep it, do you have any suggestions for a new purchase?

NPS is 60 db @ 50', 67 db @ 23', and/or 74 db @ 10' as measured on the A weighting scale. Even under load the 3,000 watt class of GX-200 Chinese generators with the large oval muffler meet that standard.

In all fairness, I did not note whether the mufflers of the Champions, Colemans, etc I measured were oval or not.

I measured a new Gentron 3500 at 75dbA operating a TV.

A Honda EM3500SX at 77dbA

A generic open generator with a Honda “Harmony” engine open frame charging batts at 74 db measured 90 deg from exhaust

A Champion 3500 at 76 dbw/AC on.

A Champion 6.5 hp at 74 dbA charging batts only

A Champion 3500 at 74 db at 20 ft. .

Another one (3500/4450) measured 76 dbA powering AC, 72 w/AC off.

We had a Champion next to us a while back, and it measured 74 DbA at 23 ft with a light (presumably charging) load, measured from the end opposite the muffler. I measured it there because that is what was pointed at our patio area. It really barked when their microwave kicked in, but I didn't measure the increase.

A poster on this forum, jauguston reported watching a state park ranger measure a Champion 6000 at 84 dbA @21 ft with a 25% load.

I have not measured a Honda EM2500, but they say it is 76 dbA at 7 meters.

And so forth.

I have also measured a new Kipor IG3000 at 68dbA on eco charging, 76 non eco, charging. It winter, so I did not measure it with air conditioning running. Their site says 62 no load and 67 db full load @ 23' (7m)

I have measured a number of built-in older Onans and Kohlers that are just under or just over the 67 db limit.

My Kohler 7kw was 68 db with an open grill, 63dbA w/cardboard in grill opening, 61dbA with a good 1 inch thick composite foam/loaded vinyl/foam plug in the grille opening, 60dbA with a 3 X 5 ft carpet mat hung rubber side in to cover the gen bay and touching the ground, and 56dbA with carpet side in. The rubber backing was pretty dense, so it gave a good STC effect while the carpet did the NRC thing.

I have not measured our open Honda EM1600 rattletrap, but it is loud.

There is absolutely no reason to run a 3,000 watt generator so one can watch TV or make coffee. With the exception of escaping oppressive heat or recharging battery banks a generator need not be used.

Well, I would certainly agree with that, but Susan needs the microwave now and then. We are, however, getting a bigger FSW inverter pretty soon, so that is covered.

Unfortunately, too many folks run their generators simply because they have them, not because they need them.

Yeah. That is what I observe a lot, too. And, if the TV is loud enough, it can't be heard inside.

Times change, some facts remain the same! Most gens need help to be more silent and for RV'ing used less. Sure had fun in the old days of no gens. Could hear all the natural sounds, even the 'no see em's' in Alaska as a kid. Or you can sing 'take be back to ol' VA.' de home of our Prof'

O&S

[Harrygoodwrench]

Does anyone know the thread size of the oil drain plug?
I also remember there was a link for a hose kit for helping draining the oil and it had a see through tube for monitoring oil level, anyone know the link?

🙂

[stevenstroud06]

Seems as though this company has a strange way of choosing packaging huh? I received my kit in the mail yesterday and although it did not come in a whiskey box, it did come with hospital gowns for filler in the place of packing peanuts! I must say well done on your instructions though. I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but now they are offering installation instructions in the form of a link that brings you to this page. The wiring is different on the kits now, but it is still a big help having at least some help deciphering the tangle of wires to people who might not know anything about it. Once again,thanks and nice job!

[Dan86300zxt]

professor95 wrote:

Dan86300zxt wrote:


A few carb adjustments and back to good.

Dan

Just curious - what carb adjustments were you able to make?

*There is an idle adjustment screw and what I believe is a fuel adjustment screw(I might be wrong, might be an air screw, but it acted just like a fuel screw!!).
Either way...
-with the extended intake attached, I had to back the fuel screw out almost two more turns and had to leave the choke partially on to get it to run(choke is merely a butterfly that blocks the intake and I would guess that it was moved to block a very small portion of the incoming air).

**I know the problem was not the diameter of the intake I was using, as I used both bigger and smaller than the bore of the carb with similiar results.
***I believe it was an "air velocity" issue.

[professor95]

Dan86300zxt wrote:


A few carb adjustments and back to good.

Dan

Just curious - what carb adjustments were you able to make?

[Old___Slow]

Well Dan,

Sounds like you have done well with your installation and testing. Perhaps your posts to this thread should have been on the Champion 2000i thread. I believe the poster who started that thread also has the AP 2000i as you do. The Champion 2000i and your A/Power 2000i should be class mates I believe?

[Dan86300zxt]

Dan86300zxt wrote:
Small update:
-I have many of the bugs worked out of my custom fitted genset compartment with the AP2K inverter generator.

*I decided to stay simple and utilize a couple of outlets for the PD battery charger and Rv shore power plug...1 for Genset power, 1 for GP3K pure sine wave Inverter.(and then an outlet for the shore power line to power the PD charger when plugged in at home)

NOTES:
-The AP2K digital inverter generator will not power the microwave. (This leads me to believe it is of the MSW type of power) The microwave is a compact unit, lower cooking power unit with digital display. The display scrambles and none of the controls work with generator power. The unit receives power, the light inside lights up, but no go.
-I stopped there with testing 120v items, I do not want to Fry/break anything(I have a large LCD flat screen and X-Box game unit)...after-all, the primary reason for this genset was to power the Progressive Dynamics 60amp 12v Converter/charger...and let the Pure Sine Wave Inverter create my power for 120v when shore power isn't avail.

*My meter shows 60hz, and 121.3 volts when well loaded. I have loaded the genset with a ceramic heater and other accessories(turning on 1 at a time) totalling 1840 watts and the genset handles it fine.

-My GP3K Pure Sine Wave Inverter needed repairs and still is not back in my hands yet...I am hoping that the inverter will power everything(especially the microwave), as it should make equal or better power than what the power company makes available in our homes.

Ahhh!!!! A final update, Pictures coming now in another post.
-I got the AP2K Digital inverter gen to run the microwave.

It took a bit of tinkering.

*I originally extended the air intake to the carb about 2 ft. to receive cool fresh air from outside my enclosure and what ended up happening was it leaned the mixture out beyond my ability to adjust it by doing so. This made the engine not want to rev as needed and work as designed(this unit has the electronic throttle controls to vary the RPM)

-I also had a crankcase vent from the engine that lead to an assembly that was associated with the fuel lines...this item, kept weeping a drip or two of oil from the engine and annoying me, so I capped off the crankcase vent, eliminated this assembly and ran the fuel directly from the supply tank, through the shut-off valve, directly to the carb. SO far, there have been no adverse effects from this. I believe the assembly was using positive pressure pulses to help push the fuel back up to the carb, and/or, I have just a touch too much oil in the engine. Either way, the problem has been solved and works great with-out the device.

**Well, I shortened the intake and slapped back on the filter and Viola!! A few carb adjustments and back to good.

***Over the past few days I have been draining down my battery bank, to get an idea of the amount of storage I have and what to expect from it.(wow, I can run alot of things for quite some time before getting too low on voltage...)
- I fired the genset up and allowed the PD 60 charger to do its thing...works great!! After 4 hrs of everything working as it should,then I began re-testing my other A/C items...

YES!!!! 1200 watt Microwave works perfectly, 0 difference between shore power and Genset power.

-Thank you very, very much for all the assistance with my questions.
Dan

[sk734]

I bought one of these Champions at the tractor store-it works great. I used a muffler clamp to bolt mine to the bed and then I chained to the corner of my pickup with a pad lock. I put an exhaust diverter on mine to use it right where it is mounted. It puts out enough to run my whole trailer.