3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[HedoTravelers]

jasult wrote:
Found New Champion 3500 remote start in box and never assembled from a home owner that posted it on Craigslist. I ended up paying 300 cash and was happy CAMPER. Hooked up battery, put in oil and gas and remote started her up and runs great. This one will go on my 5ver and will replace my pull start Champ. The pull start goes to my construction jobs and on 5ver all the time

Nice score! While my Champion is not electric start I still love it. Serves me well.

[jasult]

Found New Champion 3500 remote start in box and never assembled from a home owner that posted it on Craigslist. I ended up paying 300 cash and was happy CAMPER. Hooked up battery, put in oil and gas and remote started her up and runs great. This one will go on my 5ver and will replace my pull start Champ. The pull start goes to my construction jobs and on 5ver all the time

[blkfe]

Using the 240 VAC output from a C46540 thru a transfer switch for home power loss is akin to trying to pull your camper with a tricycle. You would be much better off to just use extension cords to needed appliances. Each leg of the 240 VAC output max'es out at 13 amps.

Or...You can do what I did and set up the transfer switch for 120VAC from the 30 amp output of the Champion. I changed the amp meter pickup coil locations as well. I had nothing in my house which needed the 240 VAC anyway...at least not during a power outage..
Brad

[JiminDenver]

Gave the guy a call and it was sold. Guess the old one will just have to do. Thanks for the info anyways.

[professor95]

JiminDenver wrote:


Speaking of a newer one, I may sell this one as I found a champion model 40008 with a starter , wheel kit and handle for $190. I'm just not sure it's worth the effort as mine starts so easy.

JinD

Jim,

The 40008 featured more than just electric start. The alternator was a new design exclusively for 120 VAC output. Tests I conducted at the time it was introduced showed that the THD was considerably lower in this model and the waveform was more consistent with a true sine wave. I still use a 40008 in the front cave of my fiver. The 40008 was only sold thru Ultra-Fab connected RV dealers and is somewhat rare. It was also very expensive, which discouraged sales.

Using the 240 VAC output from a C46540 thru a transfer switch for home power loss is akin to trying to pull your camper with a tricycle. You would be much better off to just use extension cords to needed appliances. Each leg of the 240 VAC output max'es out at 13 amps.

[JiminDenver]

The test we did with the AC and micro was here in Denver(5280 ft) on a 90 degree day. At 9000 ft the high temps are 70-75 at the most. Just not much need of AC there.

That is a good price on the electric start unit at Cabelas. They were over $500 last year. One thing I do like about the older unit is that it still has a 240v plug. Some day I might get a transfer switch for the house and will need it.

[blkfe]

FYI
Cabela's has the electric start Champion with remote control and wheel kit on sale for $419.00
Brad

[tvman44]

At that altitude all ginnys lose power. I can run my A/C & MW at the same time but I am just about seal level not 9,00ft. I love my C46540.

[JiminDenver]

We took the old C46540 model Champion we got for $62 out boondocking last week, for a old beat up unit it worked as I hoped it would.
I put the gas in and was going to give the rope a slow pull to get the gas into the carb but before I could get the rope pulled all the way out it started and spooled up to running speed. I guess no issues with running it at 9000+ ft of altitude. We ran it 2 hrs a day for 5 days and it still had gas in it when we were ready to come home.
I don't know if it should or not but it wont run the AC and Microwave at the same time, it also didn't like both hot plate burners and the Microwave all at the same time. Maybe a newer one would, I don't know. ( I know it was also charging the battery)

Speaking of a newer one, I may sell this one as I found a champion model 40008 with a starter , wheel kit and handle for $190. I'm just not sure it's worth the effort as mine starts so easy.

Thanks for the thread and info. I think for the money they are great little generators and I love the fact that the RV cord plugs in with no adapters too.

JinD

[professor95]

Beach-Rat wrote:
Electric Start conversions..

Anyway.. the starter motor kit in e-bay is over $100.00 delivered and then more parts and drilling and tapping and a battery and a charging system will all be needed..

Last time I checked on the starter as a replacement part from CPE it was something like $72.00 - don't know what the current price is.

Of course, you have to have a new flywheel with teeth for the starter. Your old flywheel is removed and used as a boat anchor.

Both the flywheel and starter motor are heavy - so shipping is high.

As you noted, this is only the beginning as a battery, switch, fan shroud, charge coil and drilling/taping are required.

While it isn't $299.00 ($429.99 new stock price at TSC). The 46533 is often sale priced at TSC for $299 or $329. Next up is the 46555, a sweet RV ready electric start unit. At $479 (shipping included) from Costco you get the ES with battery for an additional $180 over the sale priced 46533 (or $30 over the TSC list price) - actually not bad compared to a ES kit with no fan shroud or battery. BTW - the 46555 is the new replacement for the 40008 I have in my fiver.

The CPE 46539 is the sweetheart of electric start generators in the 3,000 Watt class of Chinese imports. It has electric start, remote control, over-voltage protection and load shed. Cabela's currently has it on sale for $439 - but shipping is not included. This is a lot of really nice hardware for $140 more that the bare bones $299 sale unit at TSC. I have a 46539 mounted in the basement of the Volvo and simply love the remote start & stop.

IMHO, anyone buying new that wants more than a basic rope pull genny should look at the 46539 or 46555.

[MrRchitty]

Beach-Rat wrote:
Electric Start conversions..

Having done numerous automotive engine and transmission swaps in my younger daze.. and having "built" numerous lawnmowers out of piles of parts.. still have my 1982 Snapper, on it's 4th engine..

Anyway.. the starter motor kit in e-bay is over $100.00 delivered and then more parts and drilling and tapping and a battery and a charging system will all be needed..

Might be time to sell the pull to start Champion on Craigslist and buy a new electric start (Camping World?)

Just my opinion, I could be wrong..

I get ajada thinking about drilling into my engine block..

No, you're right. I also want to wire in my own 120/240 switch, as well. My brother works on these engines, perhaps I can get some parts at a great price.

Besides, I think it's all about discovery, for me.

I never knew how to spell "ajada".

[MrRchitty]

I knew that if anyone would have done this, it would be you. With detailed instructions. It looks like you referenced in your own photo to drill the other mounting hole for the starter 1". And the ebay starter kit appears to be at a good price. Professor, thank you.

[Beach-Rat]

Electric Start conversions..

Having done numerous automotive engine and transmission swaps in my younger daze.. and having "built" numerous lawnmowers out of piles of parts.. still have my 1982 Snapper, on it's 4th engine..

Anyway.. the starter motor kit in e-bay is over $100.00 delivered and then more parts and drilling and tapping and a battery and a charging system will all be needed..

Might be time to sell the pull to start Champion on Craigslist and buy a new electric start (Camping World?)

Just my opinion, I could be wrong..

I get ajada thinking about drilling into my engine block..

[professor95]

MrRchitty wrote:
Has anyone tried to retrofit a starter on the Champion 46515 3500-4000 watt generator? It has the 196cc engine. I took the guards (air cooling covers) off to see if there were threaded holes to accommodate the starter.

The Champion 46555 has the same engine and comes with a starter. The pdf manual has a detailed diagram and the components which make up the charging and starting components are in purple.

What I noticed on my engine is there are holes present which are piloted, however, not drilled and tapped.

The two MINIMUM parts needed are the gear tooth flywheel and starter motor. The rest can be made or outsourced if needed.

You can also use (Honda) GX160-200 starter kits such as this one I found on eBay just a few minutes ago that will fit the 46515 engine.

To the best of my knowledge, CPE has not offered a retrofit kit and individual prices or parts from CPE are almost as much as a new, complete ES engine.

SuperGenProducts told me last year that they were going to offer a kit - but it has yet to be advertised.

A kit like the one I pointed out may not include the engine fan shroud (some do). A cutout will need to be made in the side of the fan shroud for starter clearance. Measure carefully and cut small - enlarging as needed by trying fitment of fan shroud over the mounted starter. It is easy to get this hole too high and too large if not extremely careful.

The key start assembly shown in the kit will not fit "as is" due to interference with the generator frame. The accessory key start assembly also contains a transition module that is not used as the 46515 has one installed. You take the key start assembly apart and rewire for the genny tossing the extra transition module.

The "newer" 196cc engines have some casting material on the block near the cylinder base that interferes with the geared flywheel. When I encountered this installing electric start on my log splitter last winter (2011) I simply removed the casting material from the engine block with a grinder - no big deal.

The kit on eBay that I referenced includes the charge coil, which may not be needed if a remote battery (such as the camper battery) is used. If you do install the charge coil, threads for the mounting bolts must also be drilled and cut into the block.

As far as the holes for mounting the starter not being taped, it is easy to cut the threads with a standard tap. I elected to use a 1/4" SAE tap for convenience and turned it with a pair of vice grip pliers.

The casting on the engine that is not drilled for the tap or the second starter mounting hole is shown. The blank casting goes pretty far into the engine - unfortunately I do not remember how far. It is best not to drill through into the crankcase as chips will end up in the oil sump.

I wrote the entire process up with numerous photos several years back when I put ES on my pressure washer. Unfortunately, I can't find it on the thread now. I think it was somewhere around '08. In any event, I still have some of the photos in PhotoBucket I am re-posting now. Maybe someone can find the original post in the thread? I believe I included how deep to drill the starter mount hole in that one.

Let me know if I can be of any other help. The conversion was well worth the $$ and time to me as I have a bad "pullin'" shoulder.


Location of needed drill and tap hole for starter


Drilling for Charge Coil holes


Using 1/4" SAE tap to thread charge coil holes


Charge coil mounted


Schematic for wiring new key switch


The air shield must be trimmed for the starter to fit

[MrRchitty]

Well, my generator is officially out of warranty, so, it is time to get a little radical. 🙂