3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[dcs1968]

MrRchitty wrote:

dcs1968 wrote:
Hello everyone,

I am looking for help in troubleshooting my Chicago Electric 96898 Generator. I was using it out in the desert to power my travel trailer and it was working fine when I shut it down. When I fired it up to use again I had no juice. We were getting ready to go home so no biggie.

Now I am out in the garage and have checked the breakers and they are fine but I have no power going to the breakers so now I need help on where to go next. The troubleshooting steps in the manual consist of 4 steps for no voltage output: (1)check and reset breakers (2) have a qualified tech check the capacitor (3) Check outlets (4) Check power cord.

The only capacitor I found is on the AVR so now I need to know how to test it. Can I use my trusty Fluke meter? And if so how?

Thank You

From experience, try the capacitor"avr". If it is a brush generator, make sure brushes are not worn. Smell the windings, if they smell burnt, then they would be shorted out. You can check for continuity of the windings across each field.

Well I just got off the phone with tech support at Harbor Freight and for $22.43 I ordered an AVR and $2.92 a set of carbon brushes. Crossing my fingers that this will fix it. Thanks for the help.

[MrRchitty]

dcs1968 wrote:
Hello everyone,

I am looking for help in troubleshooting my Chicago Electric 96898 Generator. I was using it out in the desert to power my travel trailer and it was working fine when I shut it down. When I fired it up to use again I had no juice. We were getting ready to go home so no biggie.

Now I am out in the garage and have checked the breakers and they are fine but I have no power going to the breakers so now I need help on where to go next. The troubleshooting steps in the manual consist of 4 steps for no voltage output: (1)check and reset breakers (2) have a qualified tech check the capacitor (3) Check outlets (4) Check power cord.

The only capacitor I found is on the AVR so now I need to know how to test it. Can I use my trusty Fluke meter? And if so how?

Thank You

From experience, try the capacitor"avr". If it is a brush generator, make sure brushes are not worn. Smell the windings, if they smell burnt, then they would be shorted out. You can check for continuity of the windings across each field.

[dcs1968]

Hello everyone,

I am looking for help in troubleshooting my Chicago Electric 96898 Generator. I was using it out in the desert to power my travel trailer and it was working fine when I shut it down. When I fired it up to use again I had no juice. We were getting ready to go home so no biggie.

Now I am out in the garage and have checked the breakers and they are fine but I have no power going to the breakers so now I need help on where to go next. The troubleshooting steps in the manual consist of 4 steps for no voltage output: (1)check and reset breakers (2) have a qualified tech check the capacitor (3) Check outlets (4) Check power cord.

The only capacitor I found is on the AVR so now I need to know how to test it. Can I use my trusty Fluke meter? And if so how?

Thank You

[kirkadie]

Thanks Prof.
Carb and extra gaskets ordered from Champ. Should be here in less than a week.
ONE MORE THUMBS UP for Champ CS!
Ordered secondary reg too.
I'll be building totally isolated circuits in our house next few days while I wait for parts.
Our Scotty Hilander is a frame up restore and now I'm cogitating where to put gen for dry camping.
Kirk

[professor95]

kirkadie wrote:
Thanks mrekim and prof.
I'll have to be patient and wait another hour or so for those west coasters to wake up before I can order it. Carb model is a bit different, but was in the manual.
Sorry if I ask perhaps a stupid question, especially after announcing on my first post that I'd try to keep quiet, BUT, what's the reason why I can't remove the main and idle jets and then connect the lp hose directly to the gasoline supply on the carb? Since the lp is already a vapor would it not fill the cavity (float bowl, etc) and still be pushed into the venturi at the same rate as the 'tube thru drilled out main jet oriface'...

thanks again,

Kirk

Never a stupid question (only stupid answers)

It has been tried and did not work - even with removal of the float, needle and main jet. Apparently the needed size of the venturi tube and position withing the carb are not adequate for LPG. There have been some "jury rigged" jobs where a high pressure 14 oz disposable container and part of a propane torch have been used to feed LPG to a gas engine. Personally, even if it works I find it scary and potentially a scenario for a nice explosion.

Using LPG for fuel on our generators assumes a constant engine running speed. There is NO provision for supplying fuel from idle to 3,600 rpm unless the output from the Impco regulator is split with a T and fed to individual load blocks. The load block outputs are fed to BOTH a feed block behind the carburetor and another one in front. Demand shifts as the throttle plate moves. Salvo built such an arrangement for his Yamaha inverter when we were exploring feed blocks on this thread.

Personally - I would NOT drill a carburetor for LPG unless I knew there would never be a need for gasoline switch-over without having to replace the carburetor.. (yes - I did it but it is no longer in use) Making the feed block that attached to the front of the carburetor allows both LPG or gasoline as a fuel and is totally non-invasive and easily reversed. It is all back there in the archives. I may still have some photos on the computer if needed.

The Garretson/Impco/Woodard (pick a brand - all OK) demand regulator is an absolute must as is the load block to adjust feed. You absolutely must buy the regulator.
The rest you can make or borrow from an old gas grill.

There is one exception. There is a "mixer" strictly for LPG that has ALL of the needed components built into a device slightly larger than the carburetor. Attach a BB-Q regulator to the tank and run it to the mixer - you are done. Yes, I have one and it works great (not currently installed). The only problem is finding one to buy - for some reason they are rare.


This is a commercial propane carburetor knows as a "Mixer:
This photo showes a fuel feed block that goes on the front of the carburetor. A commercial 1/2" ball valve is being used as a load block.


The MUST HAVE demand regulator


Fuel feed block for front of carburetor (home made)


Example of a home made adjustable load block.



Commercially available Propane mixers that replace carburetor.

[kirkadie]

Thanks mrekim and prof.
I'll have to be patient and wait another hour or so for those west coasters to wake up before I can order it. Carb model is a bit different, but was in the manual.
Sorry if I ask perhaps a stupid question, especially after announcing on my first post that I'd try to keep quiet, BUT, what's the reason why I can't remove the main and idle jets and then connect the lp hose directly to the gasoline supply on the carb? Since the lp is already a vapor would it not fill the cavity (float bowl, etc) and still be pushed into the venturi at the same rate as the 'tube thru drilled out main jet oriface'...

thanks again,

Kirk

[professor95]

kirkadie wrote:

I called Pat's Engines to try to get a second carb for Prof's propane conversion, after first writing CPE service to order one... reply was reasons why they felt it wasn't a good idea, and didn't want to sell me said replacement.
Kirk

Now, I find that interesting. How would they know? Have they had sufficient training on LPG fuel and conversions or are they just repeating script?

Any of these carburetors should work fine. Don't forget to order new gaskets too.

[mrekim]

kirkadie wrote:
after first writing CPE service to order one... reply was reasons why they felt it wasn't a good idea, and didn't want to sell me said replacement.

Just call them and tell them you want a spare carb. They don't need to know why :-).

Also, if the part number is not in the manual, they should at least give you the number.

I have a 3500/4000 unit (its the 120/240 volt one sold by Tractor Supply - not the California emissions one), my carb part number is St168FD-1130003

CPE charges about $23 for the carb ad $12 for shipping.

Their parts phone number is:

877-338-0999.

[JoshInReno]

professor95 wrote:

JoshInReno wrote:
Mine is currently running outside - about an hour

I hope 5W30 is ok, as that is all I had on hand. I'm not worried as it is synthetic and will be changed out at the 5 hour mark for 10W30 (synthetic again). 3 hours with no load and 2 hours with a light load if I remember correctly?

5W30 is OK, but synthetic is not the best choice for a "break- in" oil. Conventional oil will allow more efficient seating of the rings and bearings. I would not suggest synthetic oil, continuous heavy wattage loads or operation in extremely hot or cold environments until you have at least 15 hours on the engine. This is adequate "break-in" time for most any modern small air cooled engine - after that use your synthetic oil as it flows better when cold and has a higher break down point if the engine/oil gets overheated. Change your small air cooled engine oil at the recommended intervals even with synthetic - remember the engine is splash lubrication, only holds two pints+ and has no filter or oil cooler.

Got it. It ran for 2 hours before I saw this and shut it down so I will change the oil out for 10W30 conventional tonight and resume the break in procedure.

Thanks Professor.

[kirkadie]

Three hours on our 46598. Got too cold for my old bones to wait for the tank to run dry so I'll finish it off tomorrow and change oil. Head temp was 127 degrees after an hour of 1500 watt load. I think I'm going to like this machine.
I called Pat's Engines to try to get a second carb for Prof's propane conversion, after first writing CPE service to order one... reply was reasons why they felt it wasn't a good idea, and didn't want to sell me said replacement. Good guy at Pat's but couldn't tell me which carb to get.
Anybody out there happen to have either the Honda or alternative carb model # from Pat's on line catalogue? My gen is Champs latest 4000/3500 model, made 10/12. It may have a larger engine than the 3000 watt that has been the focus of discussion these past few years.
My carb looks very much like Prof's pics throughout the whole tutorial, but maybe not. The power plant is still 196cc.
Thanks in advance for any help.

Kirk

[professor95]

JoshInReno wrote:
Mine is currently running outside - about an hour

I hope 5W30 is ok, as that is all I had on hand. I'm not worried as it is synthetic and will be changed out at the 5 hour mark for 10W30 (synthetic again). 3 hours with no load and 2 hours with a light load if I remember correctly?

5W30 is OK, but synthetic is not the best choice for a "break- in" oil. Conventional oil will allow more efficient seating of the rings and bearings. I would not suggest synthetic oil, continuous heavy wattage loads or operation in extremely hot or cold environments until you have at least 15 hours on the engine. This is adequate "break-in" time for most any modern small air cooled engine - after that use your synthetic oil as it flows better when cold and has a higher break down point if the engine/oil gets overheated. Change your small air cooled engine oil at the recommended intervals even with synthetic - remember the engine is splash lubrication, only holds two pints+ and has no filter or oil cooler.

[professor95]

tvman44 wrote:
professor95 does that meter require cutting a hole in the panel to mount or is it a surface mount?

To answer your question - yes, you will need to cut a 25mm x 45mm hole.

I bought two of the meters this past summer with the plan to put one each into my CPE 2000i units. From the photo below you can see how far I have gotten accomplishing this since late August (this is December and it is still waiting on my workbench).

Since you will not have the correct electrical connector for the meter you must break off the white plastic thingie and solder on two wires that run to a 120VAC point. You then reinsulate the solder points at the meter with RTV, duct seal or Liquid Tape.

As for cutting the hole it is nice if you have a chassis punch like the one shown in the photo below. It makes a perfect 25mm x 25mm square hole - shift to the side another 20mm and finish. Another useful item is a sheet metal nibbing tool (shown in the photo). To use the nibbing tool you drill a 3/8" hole in the center of an outline of the opening and nib away a little chunk at a time. The nibbing tool cuts square corners. Of course, the old fashioned way of drilling multiple smaller holes and then using a file to square things up is also acceptable.



FRONT AND BACK VIEW OF METERS


GREENLEE SQUARE CHASSIS PUNCH AND NIBBING TOOL SHOWN TO RIGHT OF METER


THE GENNY HAS BEEN SITTING IN THIS CONDITION SINCE AUGUST (4 months?) WAITING FOR ME TO INSTALL THE METER - I'LL GET TO IT IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS NOW THAT THE CAMPER IS PARKED AND THE LEAVES CLEANED UP 😉

[JoshInReno]

Mine is currently running outside - about an hour into the break in period.

Can't even hear it inside the house. About as loud as a quiet lawn mower.

I hope 5W30 is ok, as that is all I had on hand. I'm not worried as it is synthetic and will be changed out at the 5 hour mark for 10W30 (synthetic again). 3 hours with no load and 2 hours with a light load if I remember correctly?

[Learjet]

now I have plenty of emergency power. Picked up a Champion to go along with my Tri-fuel Yamaha.

Very happy so far, load tested after break-in at 24.5 amps...no problems.

[JConatser]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
... and as usual - compliments to The Prof for his efforts and the amount of info shared.

Ditto squared!