3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

Yesterday I asked if anyone had additional feedback on DuroPower. The following message was on the forum this morning:

OldMissTailgater wrote:
just purchased a Duropower DP3500 Silent Generator online. I have been very dissatisfied since I purchased it a month ago. They failed to tell me that they had to wait on a shipment from China that took 7days to arrive and then another 5 days to get to my door step. You would think that was the worst of it but then after running it for about 2 1/2 hours it quit producing power. Now I can’t get anyone to return my calls or emails. Spend the money and get a good generator. Has anyone else had this problem?

I also found two responses in my Private E-Mail for RV.net.

The first writer specifically asked that I not quote his name if I should choose to share the message he left.

I have noticed some comments about the Duropower electric start model and thought I would pass this on. Duropower is strictly internet sales and do not appear to have much of a network for warranty or service behind them. I work close to their business so dropped by to purchase one of their new model 3500w with Electric start and remote. Only stock they had was a floor model and it was not for sale. I think they might be building orders for a quick turn. Just a guess.

It got a good look at the flor model and was not impressive regarding the sound proof design. The panels were thin sheet metal with a very thin layer of foam. They advertise 63 dB, but this could be the quietest side, that is the muffler side, with no load, since they do not specify the test condition. If so, that would make it comparable to an chinese generator without panels, like my xxxxxx. I’m beginning to question the value of spending $500 on a generator that they do not have in stock or can give true sound readings on.

The second writer did not give permission to quote and has not responded to an e-mail from me asking if it is ok to use his name in a quote to the forum. Therefore, his comment will remain nameless unless I hear from him soon. I promise, these are real e-mails, not made up ones!

XXXXXXXX wrote:

I tried to buy a electric start DuroPower. A guy at Duropower said they will not be available until some time in October or later.

Also found that it does not have a electric choke mechanism for remote start. This could prove to be interesting for the user.

I'm still asking for information on DuroPower owner's experiences, both good and not so good. There have been some previous positive postings on the genset but service seemed somewhat haphazard. Also, several users have reported failures after a year or so.

If you do not want your response to appear by your name, send it to my PM box here on RV.net.

[MrWizard]

just to clarify

but I would run the genny at least twice a year, for 30 minutes or more bring the engine up to running temps, the running engine throws oil inside the crankcase and cylinder and up on the valve stems, something that can't be accomplished by hand rotation. put a load on it, runs some fans or the A/C or something to load the genny power and create a load and some field magnetism

" Use It or Lose It " is my mantra

thats an absolute minimum, more would be better

[professor95]

kingman wrote:
Hey Professor.Where did you see the csa approved champion generator.I did a search and came up with nothing.I am in Alberta, Canada and was going to go down to Montana and pick one up as i am only an hour and a half drive from there.If I can get the new model here at an reasonable price i will opt for that instead. Any info appreciated. Shane

The model I referenced is ONLY being sold at COSTCO Canada.

Champion Power Equipment operates differently than other Chinese power equipment companies. CPE only sells equipment they build and only under the Champion label. Champion does not build the Yellow Jacket, Slick Banana, PowerKing, or any brand that an out-of-the-blue vendor decides to put on the front panel and market.

Additionally, Champion does not sell their products directly to the public thru the Internet. If you want to buy a Champion product, you must do so through one of their dealers. In the US, their biggest dealer network is the CSK auto group which includes Parts America and Advance Auto. These guys tell Champion what features they want and Champion builds them to the seller's specs. Champion will, of course, try to market new models and features thru their dealer network - but the final say as to what models are sold is up to the dealer.

Ultra Fab is another of these dealers. The model 40008 electric start Mr. Wizard and I have is only available from UltraFab. The model being sold by southern Home Depot stores is only available thru Home Depot.

The new 40015 is only available thru COSTCO Canada stores. If it is to become available in the States, a dealer will need to accept the new model(s) and put them on their shelves. Obviously, dealers may be hesitant to change features if what they have is currently selling well.

When a product, like the gensets, is returned to Champion under warranty it may be repaired and/or refurbished. But, it will NOT be resold with the Champion label on it. The Champion name is completely removed so the unit cannot be sold as new. Champion will, on occasion, sell or donate these units.

CPE builds dozens of different gensets. Many of these models are sold in other markets (countries) and may not be available in North
America. Stateside models must be EPA and CARB approved. Models sold in Canada must be CSA approved.

On the other hand a big Chinese manufacturer like Jiung Dong mostly sells their products under an assortment of different names. If I wanted to start a Chinese genset business I could buy 50 units from Jiung Dong, specify that they should be painted olive and display the name "GreenPower". I would then open an eBay store or set up an Internet site to sell them. If they did not sell well, I could pull the plug after my inventory was gone and walk away with no one to ever see the GreenPower brand again.

Another tatic is to buy a pallet load of gensets under your label. Start your business and sell out the lot. But, keep on accepting orders (and money) until you have enough capital to buy more units. Just tell the customer that demand has been so high that you are out of stock, but expect a shipment any day. If they complain afer a few weeks explain that they are backordered, the boat from China sank, they went to the wrong address...... you get the picture and know the scam I am sure. Another reason to buy from a strong retailer who has stock sitting on their floor.

Jing Dong is not the only Chinese company to do this type of marketing. Last year I identified 50+ Chinese companies that offer the same service to individual buyers.

A single Chinese company may build 4 gallon gas tanks and mufflers, then sell the same tank to 40 different companies. Engines and generator frames may be made by one of three (or more) big Chinese foundries. Two or more companies may build carburetors, air filters, recoil starters, etc. and do the same. The castings are sold to hundreds of companies who do the machine work necessary to complete the engine. Some of the larger companies may sell completed engines to a smaller company that has limited machining capacity. Determining the source for many of these models is like trying to find the parent vine in a Kudzu patch.

As you can see, if the Chinese genset market is hot, it is relatively easy for someone with a little venture capital to start a company, buy the parts, assemble the product, find a buyer, print his specified label and ship them out. Most all of these companies build around the Honda GX engine line. They hold as true as possible to the dimensions, chacteristics and parts as the EPA certified original. If they don't change anything from the original EPA approved model gaining certification is a fairly easy process. But, if they change the bore, stroke, valve timing, head design, etc. they must go through a whole new certification process - both costly and time consuming. This is the main reason all the Chinese genset engines using the GX200 specs are basically identical. It also allows us (owners of various Chinese gensets) to easily interchange parts between many different makes and models. I could put a Champion gas tank, carb, muffler or motor mounts on my now defunct GreenPower units.

Other parts like the frame, front panel, outlets, alternator innards, voltage regulators, size of wire, type of insulation on the wire, and the like don't enter into the EPA equation and can be vastly different in design and performance.

Workers in the Chinese factories that build these things earn about 50 cents in US dollars an hour. Some might get as much as 75 cents in US dollars per hour. Low labor cost and a lack of regulations like we see from OSHA and unions allow them to build a product for much, much less than the US, Canada or even Japan. In fact, China has become the new Japan.

This process and the Chinese manufacturing economy have fascinated me from the day I discovered my ELM3000. I run into a lot of dead-ends in trying to identify who makes what and every time I think I might be getting a handle on the process something new opens up to change every theory I have developed.

Anyway, such is the heritage of our Chinese built gensets. Perhaps this also explains why I am admittedly partial to Champion products.

[skyzoomer]

Professor95, Toprudder & MrWizard,

Thanks for helping me out on the generator storage in our home issue.

I didn't know WD40 is flammable so thanks for that info. It could have been a disaster storing our generator in our home with a gallon of WD40 in the tank.

I like Toprudder's idea of spraying fogging oil in the empty tank. It would be easy to just fill the tank with gas when it's time to run the generator.

MrWizard's suggestion to just run our generator twice a year sounds much easier than running it every two months.

>> Professor95 said: "I share this because I don't want to give the impression of being a "know it all" who is obsessed with telling everyone what to do."
Prof95, please never hesitate to respond to any posts in this forum. I'm sure that everyone following this thread actually looks forward to your posts. This goes for all of the other "regular" posters too. All of your info is what makes this thread so valuable.

Thanks,
Skyzoomer

[kingman]

Hey Professor.Where did you see the csa approved champion generator.I did a search and came up with nothing.I am in Alberta, Canada and was going to go down to Montana and pick one up as i am only an hour and a half drive from there.If I can get the new model here at an reasonable price i will opt for that instead. Any info appreciated. Shane

[MrWizard]

OleMissTailgater wrote:
I just purchased a Duropower DP3500 Silent Generator online. I have been very dissatisfied since I purchased it a month ago. They failed to tell me that they had to wait on a shipment from China that took 7days to arrive and then another 5 days to get to my door step. You would think that was the worst of it but then after running it for about 2 1/2 hours it quit producing power. Now I can’t get anyone to return my calls or emails. Spend the money and get a good generator. Has anyone else had this problem?

most likely cause is a FAILED voltage regulator

this has happen too more than ONE mfg, even to champion and IT seems to be an on-going problem NOT yet totally resolved

I put the blame squarely on whom ever designed the voltage regualtor circuit

the only bright spot in this, is that champion keeps spares on hand and is quick to send them out to a customer. it takes minutes to replace and a few more to check and adjust the voltage if its to low or high.

unfortunately, nobody at duropower is responding too your need

please keep us posted on the situation.

if you remove the generator head end cap, you can see if it has a voltage regulator and (2) small brushes, check those brushes to see if they are stuck , maybe not making good contact with the slip rings, or if there is a loose connection.

ON a new generator you should not have to do this, BUT these things do happen

[OleMissTailgate]

I just purchased a Duropower DP3500 Silent Generator online. I have been very dissatisfied since I purchased it a month ago. They failed to tell me that they had to wait on a shipment from China that took 7days to arrive and then another 5 days to get to my door step. You would think that was the worst of it but then after running it for about 2 1/2 hours it quit producing power. Now I can’t get anyone to return my calls or emails. Spend the money and get a good generator. Has anyone else had this problem?

[MrWizard]

they have it covered..they only thing I might add is

the champion doesn't have any magnets, it has a field windings powered thru brushes from the regulator.

rotating the engine and keeping it lubed should keep the field brushes free & clean, the starting excitement for the genset is the residual magnetism in the field core, with out undo heat and vibration this should last until you use the generator , but I would run the genny at least twice a year, for 30 minutes or more bring the engine up to running temps, the running engine throws oil inside the crankcase and cylinder and up on the valve stems, something that can't be accompished by hand rotation. put a load on it, runs some fans or the A/C or something to load the genny power and create a load and some feild magnetism

" Use It or Lose It " is my mantra

[toprudder]

If I were to use anything I think I would use a small amount of fogging oil, being sure to spray all around to coat the tank. When you need to use the generator, I think filling the tank with gasoline would be all you would have to do, the fogging oil would be diluted so much that it should burn without a problem. Besides, this oil is intended to coat the inside of the cylinder so I think it should be safe to use.

My experience with WD40, it is not a true oil. It is better for cleaning parts than it is for lubricating, and I would also guess it is not a good protectant either. I doubt it would harm the valve or gaskets but I don't know that for sure.

Just my opinions. 🙂

On edit: Professor has a good suggestion about the oil in the cylinder. I use fogging oil for that, and I store my gensets for very long periods without fuel in the tank (I run it dry with a small amount of gas mixed with stabilizor) and then spray the fogging oil in the cylinder. I've not removed the carb bowl to drain, but I have had to clean the carb a couple of times in 20 years. I might not have needed to do that if I had done as the professor said. 🙂 Also, using the premix oil in the tank is a good solution (pun intended) for protecting the tank.

Bob R.

[professor95]

skyzoomer wrote:
I don't own a RV and my Champion C46540 will be used as a backup generator for our home during power outages. That being the case, I have to store the generator in our home when it is not in use.

I won't store the C46540 in our home with gas in the tank so I will have to drain the tank after each "power outage" use. My plan is to rig up a gallon gas can (empty coleman fuel can) and use it to run the C46540 for about 10 minutes once every 2 months to keep the generator magnets magnetized. If a power outage happens, I'll siphon the WD40 out of the C46540's gas tank and fill it with gas.

Since the C46540's gas tank will be empty for long periods (maybe a year till the next power outage), I plan to turn the fuel valve to the off position and pour a gallon of WD40 into the tank. Then slosh the WD40 around so it completely coats the inside of the gas tank. I will slosh the WD40 once every 2 months when I run the generator from the make-shift gallon gas can.

MY QUESTIONS:

1. Is running the C46540 for 10 minutes once every 2 months sufficient maintenance? Especially to keep the generator's magnets magnetized?

2. Will using WD40 in the gas tank be OK to prevent rust forming inside the gas tank?

3. Think the WD40 can last for up to 2 years before a complete WD40 change is done?

4. Will the WD40 harm the fuel shut off valve or anything else it will be constantly be in contact with during storage?

Thanks,
Skyzoomer

Hey Zoomer,

My specialty is in the area of electricity/electronics and education. Ironically, I have become a "Jack of Many Trades" mostly due to growing up with a dad who was a top notch mechanical engineer who did everything. His philosophy was if you could get something fixed for $10 or buy the tool to fix it yourself for $12, you should buy the tool because you might need to fix it again later. I not only continue his tool and fix-it philosophy but believe I inherited his mechanical gene as well as my mom's creative gene .

I share this because I don't want to give the impression of being a "know it all" who is obsessed with telling everyone what to do.

A couple of things about WD-40. It was initially designed as a water displacing product. It has a very low viscosity and residual film thickness. It shares a lot of chemical properties with Kerosene. So much so that WD-40 will work as a fuel for kerosene lanterns, starting fires, and even running diesel engines.

As for storing the genset in your home, is it like sitting in the living room or a closet adjacent to the living area or in a basement or attached garage?

Assuming when you say "home" you really mean indoor living space, I have another suggestion.

It is extremely easy to remove the fuel tank from the Champion. Two 10mm screws to take off the top end rail on the engine side, four bolts on top of the tank and a squeeze of the fuel line and it slides right out. If it takes more than 5 minutes, you are wasting time. Also consider the method bobandcat devised to remove the upper section of the generator, including the fuel tank.

If you adopt one of these two methods, you can easily and safely store the genset indoors. The fuel tank will be left outdoors or in the shed where you store gas in cans or other gas engines.

To prevent rusting inside the tank with your salt air environment, mix up a concoction of gas, outboard motor oil and fuel stabilizer. Mix the oil and gas in a 50:1 ratio and add stabilizer according to the label on the package. The engine will run on this concoction just like gasoline without the additives.

Additionally, do not neglect to drain the fuel bowl on the engine's carburetor. Remove the brass nut on the bottom of the float bowl so you can dump any remaining fuel out. Watch out for the small O ring gasket at the top of the bowl. It must be replaced in the proper position or the bowl will leak. When first removing the nut, use a socket, not an open end wrench. Being brass, the nut will round off easily if you use the wrong tool. Expect it to be extremely tight on your first removal.

You are correct that the genset needs to be exercised on a scheduled basis. I do not believe the issue is keeping the magnets magnetized so much as keeping the piston and rings from freezing up and all the bearings covered with oil. Since the genset is indoors with no fuel to go bad and gum up the carb, why don't you just put clean oil in the engine crankcase, remove the spark plug and squirt a few cc of oil in the top of the engine cylinder. Pull the starter rope a few times to distribute the oil and put the plug back in. Then, pull the starter rope a few times each month to redistribute oil and keep things loose.

You cannot completely drain the fuel tank by turning it over. There is an internal lip at the filler hole to keep fuel from sloshing out. Draining fuel through the petcock is a slow, slow process. Faster draining can be accomplished by completely removing the petcock. This also gives you a chance to check and possibly clean the in-tank fuel filter.

This turned out to be much longer than I intended..... sorry.

I do feel that this would be a more sensible, economical and safer approach than the WD-40 system you proposed.

[skyzoomer]

I don't own a RV and my Champion C46540 will be used as a backup generator for our home during power outages. That being the case, I have to store the generator in our home when it is not in use.

I won't store the C46540 in our home with gas in the tank so I will have to drain the tank after each "power outage" use. My plan is to rig up a gallon gas can (empty coleman fuel can) and use it to run the C46540 for about 10 minutes once every 2 months to keep the generator magnets magnetized. If a power outage happens, I'll siphon the WD40 out of the C46540's gas tank and fill it with gas.

Since the C46540's gas tank will be empty for long periods (maybe a year till the next power outage), I plan to turn the fuel valve to the off position and pour a gallon of WD40 into the tank. Then slosh the WD40 around so it completely coats the inside of the gas tank. I will slosh the WD40 once every 2 months when I run the generator from the make-shift gallon gas can.

MY QUESTIONS:

1. Is running the C46540 for 10 minutes once every 2 months sufficient maintenance? Especially to keep the generator's magnets magnetized?

2. Will using WD40 in the gas tank be OK to prevent rust forming inside the gas tank?

3. Think the WD40 can last for up to 2 years before a complete WD40 change is done?

4. Will the WD40 harm the fuel shut off valve or anything else it will be constantly be in contact with during storage?

Thanks,
Skyzoomer

[professor95]

Who on the forum owns a DuroPower, any model? I have been trying to shake out more info on this brand but have hit several dead ends. If you have one, were you able to buy it through a brick and mortar store or is it only available on the Internet?

They have an extremely comprehensive and impressive web site but the only place I can verify that sells them is the distributor connected to the web site.

Knowing from my own efforts at achieving sound reduction, I am skeptical on their advertised 63 dB rating on the silent power unit. Dropping 4-5 dB is a huge drop in sound level. I would like to know how they are accomplishing this - a few insula....

Any feedback from current owners with actual units will be greatly appreciated.

[professor95]

Champion has released a new model genset in Canada. I have not seen one in person, but the lead ad paper really looks good. It has a twist lock adapter for RV use. New front panel meter with a "parameter switch" to select volts, frequency in Hz or curent load. Also has a low oil alert signal in addition to the shutdown switch. Like my 40008, this a 120 volt only genset with the new alternator head that has the cleanest output waveform I have yet to see on a Chinese built genset. Full amperage is available from a single outlet.

No info on cost yet, but if they are distributed through Costco stores in Canada, the price should be very competive with previous models.

Don't know when a similar model will make it to the lower 48. Looks like our friends to the north got the model jump on us this time. BTW, CSA standards are different than EPA and CARB. This model cannot be sold in the states without additional certification.

[Old___Slow]

Could it be he vanished? Hope his compartment did not overheat. Heat continues to be a problem in my compartment. I continue to leave the genset pulled out at least 1 ft. Working on several ideas but no solution as of now. As for Dave, hope he comes back to us with a post.

[MrWizard]

I did a search, and could not find any more posts from DaveVa78Chieftain

obviously the search function is not working the way it should, because it doesn't even find the QUOTED post

i would be interested in knowing what happen to Dave and his elim and his winnie chieftain MH and elim genset install

I hope it didn't go 'Up in flames'